Read is your perfect third line player. Solid across the ice surface and fully capable of filling in for extended time in the top 6.
- mayorofangrytown

Absolutely. Most versatile forward on the team.

8 games = season
- jmatchett383

Chances they win another game this month?

Chances they win another game this month?
- mayorofangrytown

-35 : 1

It'll be piecemeal -- maybe; this team has a way of making moves in a flurry -- but really, what I'm saying is no different than what other bad teams have done in overhauling their rosters.

Calgary's opening-night roster from last year to this year is radically different. So is Tampa Bay's, for example.

There will be turnover; there always is. The question is this: Do you accept a rebuild, or do you cash in your assets for older players, a different mix, and try to win?

The last time the Flyers looked like this, they moved Joni Pitkanen for Jason Smith and Joffrey Lupul. Peter Forsberg for Ryan Parent and Scottie Upshall. Stuff like that.

What I'm saying only sounds radical if you think that there is a core of players on this team that are untouchable.

What the Flyers have proved repeatedly is that when they're losing, nobody's untouchable. That's all I'm saying -- and all of it done in a salary-cap system, with the Flyers spending to the cap every season, as they always do.
- AllInForFlyers

There's a big difference between a team making a few key moves and having some turnover. Which is all possible in a salary cap system. Versus taking on boatloads of money in dead cap space in retained salary trades and buyouts, and trading all 18 players "because they can."

Read is your perfect third line player. Solid across the ice surface and fully capable of filling in for extended time in the top 6.
- mayorofangrytown

Agree.

I think Read could be a solid third liner even for the top/elite teams in the league.

Where do see Simmonds role?

He doesn't have the puck skills to easily fit in the top six, but when he is going he can score in bunches.

I like Couts more then you right now, and see a ton of potential there.

I expected Voracek to be the man this year, and he is off to a slow start.
G is a guy any team without a Crosby or Toews would take to start to build a team around.

Read I like a lot.

I want the Schenns to be part of the solution to, but not sure where they top out.
I don't think we have seen their best years by a long shot.
- Marc D

I give this season to that core to see if they are part of the future. Not even so much with on ice play, but in terms of dedication, hard work in practice, stuff like that.

I expect those who do not match up to par to be out on their ass before next season, and rightfully so.

I will openly admit though, I question the general talent make-up of the current core, and would be willing to deal some of that "potential" to improve the D with talented youth.

Read is your perfect third line player. Solid across the ice surface and fully capable of filling in for extended time in the top 6.
- mayorofangrytown

Read is one of the few untouchables to me. Awesome player. Two way player, talented, and dedicated.

I give this season to that core to see if they are part of the future. Not even so much with on ice play, but in terms of dedication, hard work in practice, stuff like that.

I expect those who do not match up to par to be out on their ass before next season, and rightfully so.

I will openly admit though, I question the general talent make-up of the current core, and would be willing to deal some of that "potential" to improve the D with talented youth.
- flyer_nutter

whatever it takes to make them better

I'm not tied to any player, but get pretty darn tired of the quick fix.

If they are trading young guys they have to get good young guys back.
And keep all their picks.

Read is one of the few untouchables to me. Awesome player. Two way player, talented, and dedicated.
- flyer_nutter

and snake bit right now in the goal department

Wow. 10 games for Kaleta. Likely for Lapierre too.
- jmatchett383

kaleta should get 20+ games. the guy is a (frank)ing goon. he's been suspended several times in recent history. and he'll get suspended again.

Wow. 10 games for Kaleta. Likely for Lapierre too.
- jmatchett383

20 for lapierre it was worse and he's a repeat offender and he's done the same hit to the sharks before

If (God forbid) the Flyers do finish last, and someone other than Ekblad is the consensus #1, I'd look to trade a spot or two.
- jmatchett383

Too soon, just having fun.

Heart and determination can only get you so far in Pro Sports when asked to be a top player.. Now to me Simmonds and Hartnell fall in that category, no one argues that they work hard, but the skill set they have are not in their favor...Especially for what they are being paid to do and that falls on Homer for not properly evaluating their worth to this team..Can not pay players more because of their work ethic...comes a time when you have to say thats great abd value it at a certain amount, but the other deciding factors, puck skills, BRAIN skills also have to be determined.

That's the question that, if you take last year into consideration, and you have to do that -- it's a fair question.

They missed the playoffs last year; short season, young team. OK.

Couturier's 20, Brayden Schenn's still young. OK.

Claude Giroux's a great player -- he is. Just isn't scoring right now.

But if your core is Simmonds and Voracek and Read...maybe that isn't good enough. Add the fact that the defense has limitations that most Cup winners don't have...

It's fair to ask the question, because they're 1-6. If you're not asking questions, with that record and after a non-playoff season, when do you ask questions?
- AllInForFlyers

You have to also put guys in a position to succeed and maximize their production... they did it with Giroux, by giving him the 1C ball and letting him run with it... but they didn't do that with any of the other core players.

Why rush to extend Hartnell if you've already got a younger (and arguably more consistent, and mentally astute) version in Simmonds?

Why bring in Vinny and push Schenn out of position (surprise, he looks better in the middle, again), and watch Couturier continue to languish on the 3rd-line with a rotating cast of wingers who can't score?

Why bring in Streit to push Gus out of the lineup after they just saw him playing like a champ at the WC's and at the end of the season?

If they're not busy burning all that cash on retaining/acquiring the best-players-available, they might actually have had enough money to afford patience with their core players (Hello Bob, JVR) and address their true needs (#1 Dman).

who do we target in the draft? forward or defense
colorado is doing just fine with a bunch of talented forwards like duchene mackinnon parenteau etc

Agree.

I think Read could be a solid third liner even for the top/elite teams in the league.

Where do see Simmonds role?

He doesn't have the puck skills to easily fit in the top six, but when he is going he can score in bunches.
- Marc D

Read, Couturier and Simmonds would be an amazing third line on a Cup team. All we need is another 6 Cup winning forwards to play above them.

Giroux and Voracek fit the bill. Lecavalier's already done it. I believe that Hartnell can still be that kind of player (He was amazing in 2010 and when he's going this team plays great). Can Brayden Schenn be one? I think it's too early to tell but I'm hopeful.

Whatever's wrong on D needs to be addressed. What they have isn't working as is. Unlike most people I think Morin will have a big season and be in the mix next year. Maybe Ghost turns pro and is just two years away.

The theory being that guys who are naturally gifted never really had to think about the game - they just played on instinct.

The pluggers had to analyze everything, and constantly think about how the game is played.

That's why they make better coaches.

And then there's the goalie theory: they spend so much time just watching the game, they develop natural coaching instincts.
- Atomic Wedgie

Gretzky is the poster child to this

Yeah and thats the problem... You still dont make my point invalid... If your talking about Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux, and Hartnell all being 20 goal scorers... You clearly havent been watching the games... None of them have goals... And as far as Boston having scorers they have Lucic, Krejci, Bergeron (when healthy) and Marchand... ALL IN WHICH HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT GOAL SCORERS! And i agree with you on Lauridsen but again i disagree with you about McGinn.. He has played 2 games, scored 3 goals and is the teams LEAD SCORER! Mind you were only 7 games in! You would think one of your proven 20 goal scorers would have done something by now? And as far as getting a proven sniper.... well all i should really have to say is Tomas Vanek... Guy is the hole team on Buffalo... and he is consistent.. Every one on the flyers that you call proven 20 goal scorers get hot in a stretch then die out... Voracek is our only "scorer" and as you can see him off Giroux's line doesnt get him goals... So your point again was what?
- Flyers-All-Day

All of the players that I named are proven 20 goal scorers. And that is the entire point. They aren't scoring. And more importantly, why aren't they scoring? McGinn has done a great job to this point, but he is not a first line Winger in this League.

Out of here boys, but realistically we talk about what we see happening, or want to. Nutter's wish list:

Continue to use the year as an evaluation for every player. If a good deal comes along, a fair deal, do not hesitate to make it. I would prefer however to wait until the deadline.

My keepers heading into the future, and the only untouchables include Giroux, Read, Mason and Voracek.

Now as for trades:
1. The following groups of players should not be here by the team the team is ready to establish itself as a consistent elite team, and should be dealt for talented youth/picks at the deadline IF a deal is right :
-Hartnell
-Coburn
-Timonen
-Grossmann
-Talbot

2. There are pieces on this apparent young core that management has to see if they fit into the long term plans. I no longer consider bSchenn, Simmonds and Coots as untouchable. If the right deal comes along, I don't hesitate to make a trade. It is a big year for them.


3. Its clear what this team needs. They need more talent on that D, and young talent, which unfortunately you may have to use the draft to get. They also need more elite talent, which I think is painfully obvious.

They have to more than anything get moving in the right direction, because organizationally they have been a headless chicken for a while now. Identify a solid young core, add pieces to it, and build for the future not hindering yourself with overpaying for over-the-hill veterans.

All of the players that I named are proven 20 goal scorers. And that is the entire point. They aren't scoring. And more importantly, why aren't they scoring? McGinn has done a great job to this point, but he is not a first line Winger in this League.
- MJL

yet

Absolutely. Most versatile forward on the team.
- jmatchett383

AND, I would hope McGinn (yet again) has proven he can stay on this roster and fill in on the 3rd line wing with Couturier and Read once Hartnell and Vinny come back. If he can score on the top line, I would think he can score with Coots and Read.

I still think Talbot, when he isn't playing like dog poop, can fill in on the 3rd line, but I have no problem limiting his ice time and putting him on the fourth line if it means giving Coots two guys to play with who can produce. Move Talbot to the fourth line with Hall and Rinaldo

Maybe Bryz wasn't the problem after all........
- Sheppy99

Great avitar, and it is obvious Bryz was not the only problem.

Check out a guy named Bobrovsky, lol

Gretzky is the poster child to this
- nastyflyergirl

he is, but i've also heard about certain superstar players "thinking the game" ahead of everyone else. seeing the ice differently. anticpating differently. etc. maybe that just doesn't translate well into being a good coach, but being a good coach is more about being just and X&O/sytems guy.

Out of here boys, but realistically we talk about what we see happening, or want to. Nutter's wish list:

Continue to use the year as an evaluation for every player. If a good deal comes along, a fair deal, do not hesitate to make it. I would prefer however to wait until the deadline.
- flyer_nutter

Since we're only 8 games in, I hope they continue that evaluation into the postseason.

Read, Couturier and Simmonds would be an amazing third line on a Cup team. All we need is another 6 Cup winning forwards to play above them.

Giroux and Voracek fit the bill. Lecavalier's already done it. I believe that Hartnell can still be that kind of player (He was amazing in 2010 and when he's going this team plays great). Can Brayden Schenn be one? I think it's too early to tell but I'm hopeful.

Whatever's wrong on D needs to be addressed. What they have isn't working as is. Unlike most people I think Morin will have a big season and be in the mix next year. Maybe Ghost turns pro and is just two years away.
- mayorofangrytown

If Morin is anywhere near ready he will likely be here.
They will have some spots to fill. You hope they don't push him into to it too early.
Best case scenario is you are right and he is ready.

Kimmo and Mez won't be back.

One of Grossmann/Coburn/L Schenn may need to go to improve the speed/skill on the back end. They may not have that luxury next year and all three still might be here. But in the long run I don't think it is in their best interest to carry all of these three.