Don't think any of us can fairly judge Chief until after this season is over.

However, I do think we can scratch the explanation that all they needed was a fresh voice to turn it around. That's gone out the window already.
- Tomahawk

The two statements contradict each otherr. One statement which I agree with is that Berube needs to be given time. Then you state that the fresh voice wasn't needed, because things didn't change overnight. It was never expected to, even with a fresh voice in the head coach spot.

Darcy Regier just sprayed coke all over his keyboard...

Tyler Myers and Ville Leino for Coburn, Read, Ghost and a top-40 pick might do it.
- Tomahawk

Vanek is the real prize and since his contract is coming due, they will likely have to move him. What would you propose for Vanek and Myers.

Vanek is the real prize and since his contract is coming due, they will likely have to move him. What would you propose for Vanek and Myers.
- section32

I wouldn't... a $7M plus player who will probably get extended into the $8-9 range is the last thing this team needs. Vanek's near the tail-end of his prime years... it's going to be Dany Heatley time for him soon.

Other side of that coin is that this team has been bad for parts of two seasons now. Moreover, the last time they were good, they had a whole host of guys who played over their heads (Hartsy, Talbot, maybe G) and key contributors from that squad are long gone (Jagr, Carle).

It's possible that Voracek's production from the lockout season might have been a mirage, too.

Teamwork is bad... but I can't say with any certainty that this team should be better on paper right now. This team has skill, but a lot of it is inconsistent and undeveloped.
- Tomahawk

They have a whole host of players that are not playing well. There is no question that this team as constituted can be a whole lot better.

The two statements contradict each otherr. One statement which I agree with is that Berube needs to be given time. Then you state that the fresh voice wasn't needed, because things didn't change overnight. It was never expected to, even with a fresh voice in the head coach spot.
- MJL

A fresh voice is supposed to jolt a moribund team to life... it's supposed to be nearly instant... like when Sutter took over the Kings.

If systems, player management, habits, etc are the real problem, then that's when it takes a few months to see some results of a coaching change, either good or bad.

If the players are actually bad... then

A fresh voice is supposed to jolt a moribund team to life... it's supposed to be nearly instant... like when Sutter took over the Kings.

If systems, player management, habits, etc are the real problem, then that's when it takes a few months to see some results of a coaching change, either good or bad.

If the players are actually bad... then
- Tomahawk

Apples and oranges. Berube replaced a legit NHL coach, Sutter replaced a corpse.

A fresh voice is supposed to jolt a moribund team to life... it's supposed to be nearly instant... like when Sutter took over the Kings.

If systems, player management, habits, etc are the real problem, then that's when it takes a few months to see some results of a coaching change, either good or bad.

If the players are actually bad... then
- Tomahawk

losing two top 6 forwards as soon as he took over doesnt help the transition much

A fresh voice is supposed to jolt a moribund team to life... it's supposed to be nearly instant... like when Sutter took over the Kings.

If systems, player management, habits, etc are the real problem, then that's when it takes a few months to see some results of a coaching change, either good or bad.

If the players are actually bad... then
- Tomahawk

Every situation is different. It really depends on the situation. Are you telling me that LA was in the same situation as the Flyers are in now?

They have a whole host of players that are not playing well. There is no question that this team as constituted can be a whole lot better.
- MJL

Who's guaranteed production are they not getting right now? Outside of Giroux, and maybe Vinny b/c he's not in the lineup... who are your other guaranteed 20-30 goal scorers, or guaranteed 60-70 point guys, or guaranteed 30-50 pt dmen? Mason and Emery are far from guaranteed .915+ SV% guys, as wel.

There are guys who have hit those levels in the past, but there's no guarantee that they can do it again this year.

I am at the point where I think they almost need to rebuild the entire blue line.
- Marc D

I don't think we're allowed to talk about that quite yet.

losing two top 6 forwards as soon as he took over doesnt help the transition much
- Crimsoninja

Somehow, I doubt you'll convince him having Hartnell in the lineup would improve this team. At all.

Every situation is different. It really depends on the situation. Are you telling me that LA was in the same situation as the Flyers are in now?
- MJL

LA were chronically guilty of playing well below their perceived potential and they were chafing under Murray's system and communication style, so yeah, it's similar.

losing two top 6 forwards as soon as he took over doesnt help the transition much
- Crimsoninja

That shouldn't effect the players effort.

1964 was the last time a team started the season scoring 2 goals or less in 8 straight games.

Own it. Spin it. Embrace it

1964 was the last time a team started the season scoring 2 goals or less in 8 straight games.

Own it. Spin it. Embrace it
- PLindbergh31

what happened that year?

1964 was the last time a team started the season scoring 2 goals or less in 8 straight games.

Own it. Spin it. Embrace it
- PLindbergh31

what exactly are you looking for?

should we all say (frank) this team and stop watching/caring?


i dont get who you are trying to antagonize?

That shouldn't effect the players effort.
- flyers2001

Yeah, on a functional team, guys would step up throughout the organization and the demonstrated effort level would be even greater.

Nobody can say that Schenn, Raffl and McGinn haven't done that in Vinny/Hartsy's absences... but the guys behind them haven't picked up the slack... and there are too many guys behind them that just aren't capable of picking up the slack.

what exactly are you looking for?

should we all say (frank) this team and stop watching/caring?


i dont get who you are trying to antagonize?
- Crimsoninja

it's a 0/10 attempt

1964 was the last time a team started the season scoring 2 goals or less in 8 straight games.

Own it. Spin it. Embrace it
- PLindbergh31

how long did the gm last?

how long did the gm last?
- PhillaBully

what happened that year?
- 2Real

The GI Joe was created.

what exactly are you looking for?

should we all say (frank) this team and stop watching/caring?


i dont get who you are trying to antagonize?
- Crimsoninja

Competence.

what exactly are you looking for?

should we all say (frank) this team and stop watching/caring?


i dont get who you are trying to antagonize?
- Crimsoninja

It's an allegory, where he is using a statistical fact of historical ineptitude to illustrate the absurdity of people continually arguing how talented/effective the group who is performing the ineptitude must be.

Competence.
- PLindbergh31

Competence.
- PLindbergh31

from the GM whose moves you fully supported this offseason?

if homer gets fired you'll be ripping his replacement faster than anyone