How does an NHL team go about tanking?
- MJL

You are a funny guy. For the most famous example of tanking, let's look no further than the first franchise saviour of the pittsburgh penguins.

http://www.post-gazette.c...son-to-get-lemieux-371910

We won't even talk about the years leading up to Malkin and Crosby being drafted by the Penguins. 2 more generational talents who also did nothing short of saving the franchise.

How does an NHL team go about tanking?
- MJL

They didn't tank is the thing despite what somebody wants to believe. They did what their job was to do & that's go out play their ass off and win games.

So far I'm impressed having watched Morin in most of the games he's played, while I didn't agree with the pick based on what was on the board at the time, I'm now more accepting of it and seeing his progress.

Lavi should have never changed his system for the injuries and played Lauridson on the 1st pair 30 minutes a night.
- GirouxForTheShow

What about the rest of the team. Should Laviolette have told them to go out there and coast?

So the team being 1-7 is because Holmgren traded JVR for Luke Schenn? If you honestly believe that, then you are really overrating JVR. So if you want to label an opinion cogent, that isn't one to hang your hat on. Nothing I stated has been proven wrong. The outcome of the trade is still undecided. What anyone on this board would rather have, is irrelevant. And if "anyone" on this board comes back and says they'd rather have Carle, well then there is some serious hypocritical thoughts being spoken. Because this board was overwhelmingly in favor of letting Carle walk and not paying him what he received in Free Agency.

Bottom line is that the future will decide who screwed up and who didn't. Not one 8 game stretch.

And one part of my argument is that young defenseman take every bit as long to develop as Power Forwards do, if not longer. That argument is proven wrong by the Flyers current level of play and 1-7 start?
- MJL

another straw man argument....yawn....

and are you counting on schenn to suddenly develop offensively? the trend on that prayer is poor according to a blog that Bill has posted here and/or referred to many times....what added dimension other than decision making and better positioning can he demonstrate to be anything more than a solid #4 type...though he's currently a #6.

just like you did about the trade, people are open to change their minds in hindsight about carle...esp when they see the +35 contract we are saddled w/ via streit.

if you can't see the whack-a-mole trend in the GMs moves here, you're blind.

They didn't tank is the thing despite what somebody wants to believe. They did what their job was to do & that's go out play their ass off and win games.

So far I'm impressed having watched Morin in most of the games he's played, while I didn't agree with the pick based on what was on the board at the time, I'm now more accepting of it and seeing his progress.
- ob18

Yes, I agree. But some apparently wanted the Flyers to purposely lose. I'm just wondering how that is accomplished. How a Coaching staff or team management would go about doing that. It's great that Morin is looking impressive.

Yes, I agree. But some apparently wanted the Flyers to purposely lose. I'm just wondering how that is accomplished. How a Coaching staff or team management would go about doing that. It's great that Morin is looking impressive.
- MJL

I don't know as a coach I'd want to win to keep my job and make as many runs for a cup as I could. In the end Lavy lost his job but that's another conversation.

True, but in typical fashion with the Red Wings he'll pay his dues first.
- ob18

I wish we'd do that, they turn average/below average prospects into more than average/below average NHL players because of that.

The part about you blaming the franchise for not tanking
- JAKEw1234

Pretty simple. They played their way out of a prime draft spot with nothing to gain at the tail end of the season.

Laviolette refuses to change his system for 40+ games then, when the Flyers are long past eliminated from the playoffs, he changes his system and wins 4 games which , moves the flyers down 5-6 spots in the draft and saves his job for 3 games into the regular season.

Are you telling me that you think the Flyers are better off for having won those games?

who on this board would rather not have JVR and carle back instead of schenn...and possibly by extension, streit? homer (frank)ed up...can't you see that?
- isaiah520

I didn't want Carle for the money he got. I still wouldn't take him on that contract. Not that I'm in love with the Streit signing, but having Carle back wouldn't be a panacea for the current team problems...he had his own issues. JVR for Schenn, the jury is still out. I've seen Schenn play games where he's been very effective in a top 4 role and proven well worth the price, and others where it's questionable...the same can be said for JVR...he's still inconsistent and not a sure thing to ever score more than say, 25 goals. Both of these guys are young players that will not fully develop for a few years...then perhaps we can see if there was a big mistake made.

another straw man argument....yawn....

and are you counting on schenn to suddenly develop offensively? the trend on that prayer is poor according to a blog that Bill has posted here and/or referred to many times....what added dimension other than decision making and better positioning can he demonstrate to be anything more than a solid #4 type...though he's currently a #6.


- isaiah520

The only straw man argument was in your reply. And where are you getting the idea that I'm counting on Schenn to suddenly develop offensively? I've made numerous posts on what I think Schenn upside is. And yes, if he develops better decision making and positioning, he can absolutely reach the level of a top pairing defensive defenseman, who is a compliment to a #1 defenseman.

just like you did about the trade, people are open to change their minds in hindsight about carle...esp when they see the +35 contract we are saddled w/ via streit.

if you can't see the whack-a-mole trend in the GMs moves here, you're blind.
- isaiah520

No problem with anyone changing their mind about Carle. Just don't pretend that it was known it was a mistake all along. And really, the discussion is about the JVR for Schenn trade. And whether it was a good trade or not. In my opinion I like the trade. And the future will decide the ultimate outcome of that deal.

I wish we'd do that, they turn average/below average prospects into more than average/below average NHL players because of that.
- JAKEw1234

What do you think sending Laughton & Morin back was doing. I'm sure Laughton could play now but he still needs to round out his game so they didn't need to rush him.

i think the flyers posture regarding those 2 is different now...not that i recommend that course of action, but clearly they are not in the same position.
- isaiah520

It's funny that people are sick of watching our good players hit their prime elsewhere, but are quick to want to trade prospects away the moment they have a downturn. Not saying everyone on here does this, but it's pretty frequent.

I don't know as a coach I'd want to win to keep my job and make as many runs for a cup as I could. In the end Lavy lost his job but that's another conversation.
- ob18

Exactly. Laviolette knows that he has to perform to keep his job. But he's supposed to look players like Giroux and Timonen in the face and tell them, let's tank for a better draft pick.

Pretty simple. They played their way out of a prime draft spot with nothing to gain at the tail end of the season.

Laviolette refuses to change his system for 40+ games then, when the Flyers are long past eliminated from the playoffs, he changes his system and wins 4 games which , moves the flyers down 5-6 spots in the draft and saves his job for 3 games into the regular season.

Are you telling me that you think the Flyers are better off for having won those games?
- Flyers_01

So those players that came up weren't showing they could handle NHL minutes/duties and that they belong and that they should reside themselves to a career in the AHL riding buses?

Pretty simple. They played their way out of a prime draft spot with nothing to gain at the tail end of the season.

Laviolette refuses to change his system for 40+ games then, when the Flyers are long past eliminated from the playoffs, he changes his system and wins 4 games which , moves the flyers down 5-6 spots in the draft and saves his job for 3 games into the regular season.

Are you telling me that you think the Flyers are better off for having won those games?
- Flyers_01

It's not about whether anyone thinks that the Flyers are better off for having won those games.

So those players that came up weren't showing they could handle NHL minutes/duties and that they belong and that they should reside themselves to a career in the AHL riding buses?
- ob18

Yes for the sake of a better draft pick!

What do you think sending Laughton & Morin back was doing. I'm sure Laughton could play now but he still needs to round out his game so they didn't need to rush him.
- ob18

Oh ya, and Giroux now that I think about it. I guess we do treat our prospects right.

It's funny that people are sick of watching our good players hit their prime elsewhere, but are quick to want to trade prospects away the moment they have a downturn. Not saying everyone on here does this, but it's pretty frequent.
- feelingkettle

Well said. But it's offered as a cogent argument.

Pretty simple. They played their way out of a prime draft spot with nothing to gain at the tail end of the season.

Laviolette refuses to change his system for 40+ games then, when the Flyers are long past eliminated from the playoffs, he changes his system and wins 4 games which , moves the flyers down 5-6 spots in the draft and saves his job for 3 games into the regular season.

Are you telling me that you think the Flyers are better off for having won those games?
- Flyers_01

How do you think teams tank? Do you honestly believe the coach comes into the locker room and tells his team "we're going to intentionally lose for a better draft pick"?

Watching the '74 game 6 broadcast on CSN.

It is remarkable the difference in speed and pace compared to today's game.

How do you think teams tank? Do you honestly believe the coach comes into the locker room and tells his team "we're going to intentionally lose for a better draft pick"?
- JAKEw1234

Yes, both the Coach and the GM would!

Oh ya, and Giroux now that I think about it. I guess we do treat our prospects right.
- JAKEw1234

I mean Laughton has taken this chance and ran with it. He had a hat trick last night with his dad in the stands giving him 15 points (8 goals, 7 assists) in 7 games. He's playing 20 plus minutes a night in all situations & now leads the OHL in shorthanded goals in that time.

Morin has been really working on his defense but has also played in all situations while chipping in offensively.

How do you think teams tank? Do you honestly believe the coach comes into the locker room and tells his team "we're going to intentionally lose for a better draft pick"?
- JAKEw1234

Frankly its unbelievable that any fan would advocate for their team to tank games to get a better draft pick.

I mean Laughton has taken this chance and ran with it. He had a hat trick last night with his dad in the stands giving him 15 points (8 goals, 7 assists) in 7 games. He's playing 20 plus minutes a night in all situations & now leads the OHL in shorthanded goals in that time.

Morin has been really working on his defense but has also played in all situations while chipping in offensively.
- ob18

That's all well and good. But what I thought was going to happen is what's happening. Laughton is obviously dominating a League that he is too good to play in.

Yes for the sake of a better draft pick!

- MJL

Yup, they must want a top 10 pick. Can't blame them having watched plenty of the picks but I'd really not want my team to be bad enough to keep having that kind of selection.