That's a pretty reductive and cynical slant... at the very least, NHL players are expected to pay attention to detail and not leave their teammates out to dry. It's not exactly an unreachable bar.
- Tomahawk

I agree, it's not an unreachable bar, and it should be asked of every player, but where we differ is that I don't feel every single player has to be the same.

I didn't want Jeremy Roenick to be Michal Handzus. I wanted Jeremy Roenick to be JR Superstar AND I want Michal Handzus to be Michal Handzus, and if I'm lucky, I find a way to get both guys on my roster so I give myself a better chance to win.

More or less -- their coach felt Yakupov wasn't competing hard enough in the defensive zone and on the forecheck, while attempting to freelance/score too much in the offensive zone.

Again, I'm not saying that the first two things are great -- and as a coach, you should try to correct those things.

But Nail Yakupov went No. 1 overall for a reason: Because he can freaking score. If you want the guy to forecheck like Zac Rinaldo and backcheck like Maxime Talbot, then trade him to us for freaking Zac Rinaldo and Maxime Talbot.

But see, that's not what they want in today's NHL. They want every single player to be Patrice Bergeron, while failing to understand that what makes Patrice Bergeron special and valuable is that he embraces that role.

Give me a guy like Nail Yakupov, who knows what he does well and wants to do that and has the skill to do it, over a guy like "Grinder X" who can't do anything well enough to impact a game because he doesn't have the skill to do it, any day of the week. I'll figure out how to win with the rest of the roster.
- AllInForFlyers

Fair enough. I still don't know how much I would give up on another kid with potential - we seem pretty well stocked with those kinds of players - but I get your point, and defensive responsibility is good, but you still have to score more goals than your opponent to win.

That being said, Edmonton doesn't have a problem scoring goals (and that's with none from Nail so far this year), they have a problem keeping them out of their own net, so I can sympathize with a coach who wants a little more D from his team.

I agree, it's not an unreachable bar, and it should be asked of every player, but where we differ is that I don't feel every single player has to be the same.

I didn't want Jeremy Roenick to be Michal Handzus. I wanted Jeremy Roenick to be JR Superstar AND I want Michal Handzus to be Michal Handzus, and if I'm lucky, I find a way to get both guys on my roster so I give myself a better chance to win.
- AllInForFlyers

On the very good teams, the ones that win the Stanley Cup. Every player works hard and pays attention to detail on both sides of the puck. Every player doesn't have to be a Selke candidate. But they have to make an effort and be at least competent at both ends of the ice.

Sorry I've been away all day.

What is the reaction to McGinn getting sent down?

Don't like the McGinn move at all. What kind of message does this send to him? Be one of the better players on the team when you get called up and still get sent down.

On the very good teams, the ones that win the Stanley Cup. Every player works hard and pays attention to detail on both sides of the puck. Every player doesn't have to be a Selke candidate. But they have to make an effort and be at least competent at both ends of the ice.
- MJL

That's certainly a given, and I don't dispute that. But there's a difference in how you get there. You don't have to scratch Nail Yakupov any sooner for not backchecking hard enough than you have to give Ryan Jones more minutes for backchecking hard while missing three open nets in a period.

Because Ryan Jones missing open nets is every bit as bad. That's what the NHL has forgotten. We glorify guys who "give it their all," but can't score. When in my book, giving your all means you score, too.

Sorry I've been away all day.

What is the reaction to McGinn getting sent down?
- Marc D

I didn't like it, but I read Craig Berube's explanation and accept that it's his call to make.

I don't like it, though.

Stolarz in net again tonight for London against Erie

Sorry I've been away all day.

What is the reaction to McGinn getting sent down?
- Marc D

It's not every day a team that has problems scoring goals sends its leading goal-scorer down to the minors...

I'm still scratching my head over G saying the Flyers are going to make the playoffs.

Never dull with the Flyers.

That's certainly a given, and I don't dispute that. But there's a difference in how you get there. You don't have to scratch Nail Yakupov any sooner for not backchecking hard enough than you have to give Ryan Jones more minutes for backchecking hard while missing three open nets in a period.

Because Ryan Jones missing open nets is every bit as bad. That's what the NHL has forgotten. We glorify guys who "give it their all," but can't score. When in my book, giving your all means you score, too.
- AllInForFlyers

Yes, you most certainly do need to scratch a guy like Yakupov for not backchecking hard enough. There is a huge difference between not making an effort of the back check versus shooting the puck wide. Huge difference. Not working hard on the backcheck shows a lack of effort and possibly just not caring about that part of the game. A NHL Coach, especially one with a lot of young players will play the player busting it, even if he misses the net on a few shots, over the young kid with a perceived attitude issue that doesn't want to work. The NHL hasn't forgotten anything. That's exactly how the NHL should treat that situation. Do you think when Ryan Jones misses the net, that is is his intention? Is he not making an effort to score there, or to hit the net?

I didn't like it, but I read Craig Berube's explanation and accept that it's his call to make.

I don't like it, though.
- AllInForFlyers

McGinn going down is simply about roles and where a player will play. The Flyers view McGinn as a player that is better on a scoring line. With Hartnell coming back, he takes the spot that McGinn was in. McGinn doesn't deserve to be sent down, but it's about what they feel is better for the team.

Fair enough. I still don't know how much I would give up on another kid with potential - we seem pretty well stocked with those kinds of players - but I get your point, and defensive responsibility is good, but you still have to score more goals than your opponent to win.

That being said, Edmonton doesn't have a problem scoring goals (and that's with none from Nail so far this year), they have a problem keeping them out of their own net, so I can sympathize with a coach who wants a little more D from his team.
- wolfhounds

Understood -- I sympathize with what Eakins is asking, but my thing is this: On a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 2006, Nail Yakupov's been there all of 50 of those games.

But he's the healthy scratch? Edmonton giving up a ton of goals is his fault?

I absolutely think that's Russian bias, right there. If his name was "Tyler Jordan Nugent-Hopkins-Eberle," drafted No. 1 out of Moose Jaw, I'd bet a paycheck that he wouldn't have gotten scratched.

I didn't like it, but I read Craig Berube's explanation and accept that it's his call to make.

I don't like it, though.
- AllInForFlyers

I (frank)ing hate it. how bout hartnell earns his spot back in practice. Rather than sliding right back in? mcginn to me hasnt looked bad in the last two games. he hasnt had any shots but i think hes battling hard

McGinn going down is simply about roles and where a player will play. The Flyers view McGinn as a player that is better on a scoring line. With Hartnell coming back, he takes the spot that McGinn was in. McGinn doesn't deserve to be sent down, but it's about what they feel is better for the team.
- MJL

What part of me saying "I read Craig Berube's explanation" did you not understand?

Understood -- I sympathize with what Eakins is asking, but my thing is this: On a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 2006, Nail Yakupov's been there all of 50 of those games.

But he's the healthy scratch? Edmonton giving up a ton of goals is his fault?

I absolutely think that's Russian bias, right there. If his name was "Tyler Jordan Nugent-Hopkins-Eberle," drafted No. 1 out of Moose Jaw, I'd bet a paycheck that he wouldn't have gotten scratched.
- AllInForFlyers

I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with Yakupov being Russian. It has to do with his work ethic. And if any other young player showed the same lack of effort in the defensive end of the ice. They'd get the same treatment.

Yes, you most certainly do need to scratch a guy like Yakupov for not backchecking hard enough. There is a huge difference between not making an effort of the back check versus shooting the puck wide. Huge difference. Not working hard on the backcheck shows a lack of effort and possibly just not caring about that part of the game. A NHL Coach, especially one with a lot of young players will play the player busting it, even if he misses the net on a few shots, over the young kid with a perceived attitude issue that doesn't want to work. The NHL hasn't forgotten anything. That's exactly how the NHL should treat that situation. Do you think when Ryan Jones misses the net, that is is his intention? Is he not making an effort to score there, or to hit the net?
- MJL

See, you're making the assumption that Ryan Jones backchecks hard every single time he's on the ice, that he does every single thing well, every single minute of the game, and that the only thing he doesn't do well is not score.

I've watched Edmonton play multiple times this year. Nail Yakupov doesn't backcheck any more or less than any other talented offensive player does. Mario Lemieux backchecked sporadically. That's just a fact. John Leclair wasn't the first one back or the first one in on the forecheck.

It's crap, MJL. Ryan Jones doesn't play any harder than Nail Yakupov. Ryan Jones does what the coaches want more than Nail Yakupov.

There's a difference.

What part of me saying "I read Craig Berube's explanation" did you not understand?
- AllInForFlyers

My post had zero to do with what you do, or don't understand. It had to do with making conversation on a message forum!

My post had zero to do with what you do, or don't understand. It had to do with making conversation on a message forum!
- MJL

No, your post had to do with you trying to explain to me why the Flyers sent down Tye McGinn, when I clearly had said I read the FLYERS COACH explaining it!

See, you're making the assumption that Ryan Jones backchecks hard every single time he's on the ice, that he does every single thing well, every single minute of the game, and that the only thing he doesn't do well is not score.

I've watched Edmonton play multiple times this year. Nail Yakupov doesn't backcheck any more or less than any other talented offensive player does. Mario Lemieux backchecked sporadically. That's just a fact. John Leclair wasn't the first one back or the first one in on the forecheck.

It's crap, MJL. Ryan Jones doesn't play any harder than Nail Yakupov. Ryan Jones does what the coaches want more than Nail Yakupov.

There's a difference.
- AllInForFlyers

That's incorrect. I'm not making any assumption. I have no idea what Ryan Jones does. I simply used the hypothetical situation that you used. If it's crap then why was he scratched. Because the Coach just wanted to scratch a Russian because he doesn't like those stinkin ruskies? It's not crap, it's how the NHL works. And if Yakupov isn't doing what the Coaches want, then he deserves to be scratched. You've got this all wrong.

No, your post had to do with you trying to explain to me why the Flyers sent down Tye McGinn, when I clearly had said I read the FLYERS COACH explaining it!
- AllInForFlyers

You can look at it however way you choose. Not my issue.

That's incorrect. I'm not making any assumption. I have no idea what Ryan Jones does. I simply used the hypothetical situation that you used. If it's crap then why was he scratched. Because the Coach just wanted to scratch a Russian because he doesn't like those stinkin ruskies? It's not crap, it's how the NHL works. And if Yakupov isn't doing what the Coaches want, then he deserves to be scratched. You've got this all wrong.
- MJL

Funny. Aren't you the same guy who said that Andrej Meszaros didn't deserve to be scratched?

Yeah. That was you.

Enjoyin' my coffee...

You can look at it however way you choose. Not my issue.
- MJL

Funny. Aren't you the same guy who said that Andrej Meszaros didn't deserve to be scratched?

Yeah. That was you.
- AllInForFlyers

Andrej Meszaros has zero to do with the Yakupov situation. But I understand completely why you want to deflect and change the subject.

Understood -- I sympathize with what Eakins is asking, but my thing is this: On a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 2006, Nail Yakupov's been there all of 50 of those games.

But he's the healthy scratch? Edmonton giving up a ton of goals is his fault?

I absolutely think that's Russian bias, right there. If his name was "Tyler Jordan Nugent-Hopkins-Eberle," drafted No. 1 out of Moose Jaw, I'd bet a paycheck that he wouldn't have gotten scratched.
- AllInForFlyers

Could be, but then I'm not exactly sure what the Russian 'bias' is. I do know there's a bit of a contentious relationship between the NHL and the KHL regarding contracts, and I also know there's a definite fear of Russians running home to the Motherland ala Kovy if they get the call and things aren't going well in North America. But beyond that, I'm not sure.

Still, it could be a language barrier, a clash of personalities, Nail's age and maturity level, etc. Or it could be he's not playing good defensively on top of not scoring.

But you're right, Edmonton is a bad defensive team with nearly every player in the negatives, and that certainly isn't Nail's fault.