That's what the numbers say.
- Jeffmt

Last years numbers were very similar to Nik Kronwall, I see his game in the same light. Both good defensemen, but not "elite" guys.

But but but.....
- burn

He's no Weber, pffft. I mean, what's Weber without Suter? Exactly.

If Phaneuf had a Suter, this whole conversation would be the other way around.

Its ok the Leafs can use his horrible interviews as leverage.
- peddy-93

Signing him for anything more than what he makes - even at what he makes - means next year someone big has to be moved, and moving 2 million away or something isn't going to cut it. If keeping him means moving out one top six forward or even 2 guys off the third line would hurt the club maybe more then him leaving. Either way wait. Wait, because Dion often looks very good to start seasons, and then tires, and then looks like he did in the playoffs. In three months there may be no reason to think he should get any kind of a raise, just like the thought of amy kind of a raise was found to be silly after last season ended.

that was a day that I realized there was a hockey god. A 3rd/2nd line winger that had a pretty good year started making 1st line money. In a cap world as well.
- Killbot460

Fair point. Edmonton is better off without Clarkson.

Honestly its not all about stats.
- Killbot460

It's not about stats when the stats are completely counter to your argument. The stats soundly state that Phaneuf is really good defenseman, probably top 15. If you're going to dispute the stats then you'd better have a really good argument.

Franson is one of players with a positive Corsi relative to Quality of competition. The others are Rielly (although worse) and Phaneuf and Gunnarson. Gunnarson is nearly matched to Phaneuf in numbers this year and can be more than helpful in guiding Franson while he assumes top spot on the blue-line.

Just for reference btw taking this year out of the equation, Phaneuf's Relative Corsi was one of the worst ont he team over his many years playing for the leafs. In fact, last year he was nearly as bad as komisarek. Franson was far better, even though he wasn't too great himself. The year before that, Franson led the team in Relative Corsi. My point is that while his corsi may be lowering a bit, his QofC is increasing every year and he can soon be ready to make a transition to top minutes.

Keep in mind that so far this year, here is the breakdown of TOI/60 for the Leafs:

Phaneuf - 16.74
Gardiner - 16.10
Gunnarson - 15.67
Ranger - 15.55
Reilly - 15.13
Franson - 14.70
Fraser - 8.84 (Skewed because of time missed)

That just goes to show you that PHaneuf is not playing much more than most other d-men these days. We would be better served using his cap to pick up a stable d-man and transitioning one of Rielly, Gardiner, or Franson into his role.
- mfreedman

I assume this is even strength minutes? Cause dions also #1PP and PK... Kind if important

Honestly its not all about stats.
- Killbot460

Only when they prove you wrong, but never when they prove you right..We get it.

Honestly its not all about stats.
- Killbot460

You're right. And that's why Oiler and Canucks fans know very little about him. Because they dont actually watch the games. They just continue to have this opinion about him even though they dont watch him play

Honestly its not all about stats.
- Killbot460

What else is it for a defenceman? Tough minutes? Because Phaneuf gets the toughest probably in the league.

No one depends on a defenceman more than Toronto does with Phaneuf.

Are you legitimately this dumb?

You are worth what you can get in an open market moron.

If Dion can get 7.5 x 7 from Edmonton which will guaranteed be offered. That's what he's worth because that's what someone is willing to pay for his services.
- SameOld

Im only worth 60k

Oh, and just because Weber makes too much money doesn't mean I want Phaneuf overpaid as well.

Signing him for anything more than what he makes - even at what he makes - means next year someone big has to be moved, and moving 2 million away or something isn't going to cut it. If keeping him means moving out one top six forward or even 2 guys off the third line would hurt the club maybe more then him leaving. Either way wait. Wait, because Dion often looks very good to start seasons, and then tires, and then looks like he did in the playoffs. In three months there may be no reason to think he should get any kind of a raise, just like the thought of amy kind of a raise was found to be silly after last season ended.
- aminnes

no.

Honestly its not all about stats.
- Killbot460

Also has highest quality of competion.


He puts ups numbers and plays d agianst the oppositions best.

He's no Weber, pffft. I mean, what's Weber without Suter? Exactly.

If Phaneuf had a Suter, this whole conversation would be the other way around.
- peddy-93

Totally true. He has always had that star partner.

Also has highest quality of competion.


He puts ups numbers and plays d agianst the oppositions best.
- burn

I got you again, bro.

All the indictments of Phaneuf are based on these stupid subjective observations of his game, about how he's slow, he makes bad decisions, he pinches at the worst times. The problem is, when you actually quantify his game the numbers don't back any of that up. I wonder why that is.
- Jeffmt

Umm... yea they do.. Here's a sample from last year (not including thisyear bcause of sample size, but he has been marignally better so far)

2012-2013

Penalties Taken/60 - 0.8
Penalties Drawn/60 - 0.2
Corsi On - (-18.16)
Corsi Off - (-10.85)
Corsi Relative - (-7.3)
Goals Against On/60 - 2.93
Goals For On/60 - 2.72
Goals For/Against Differential/60 - (-0.21)

that was a day that I realized there was a hockey god. A 3rd/2nd line winger that had a pretty good year started making 1st line money. In a cap world as well.
- Killbot460

On what poopty (frank)ing team is $5.25M 1st line money??

(frank) people are stupid.

Oh btw, your gm offered him over $6m per...

Or we're you talking about RNH getting over $6m for scoring 4 goals?

no.
- Barx

Actually even as it is there are huge decisions to be made before next year.

He plays 10-12 mins in the 3rd period most games...
- Big_Lightnin

if that is the case, even more reason for him to get into better shape....that being said, every player should be working on conditioning....can only imagine where Kessel's game would be if he worked out.

I assume this is even strength minutes? Cause dions also #1PP and PK... Kind if important
- Big_Lightnin

Yep, even strength. It's easier to compare him to his colleagues in this department

Let him walk and use the money to sign Grabo, extend Ranger long term, and give Bozak his well deserved raise.

On what poopty (frank)ing team is $5.25M 1st line money??

(frank) people are stupid.

Oh btw, your gm offered him over $6m per...
- Big_Lightnin

On what poopty (frank)ing team is $5.25M 1st line money??

(frank) people are stupid.

Oh btw, your gm offered him over $6m per...
- Big_Lightnin

Canucks

Totally true. He has always had that star partner.
- bixll

And when he didn't last year, he looked very Phaneuf-ish, which apparently isn't elite. But Weber is still considered 'elite'