That's the concern. I want to see a plan out of Holmgren or Hextall or whomever is building the team. They have some decent prospects in the pipeline, to go along with the young talent on hand. Develop a plan, and quick the short term fixes.
- Jsaquella

Crims brought up a point of what a true re-build is. Its not for one, strapping yourself down with contracts that will eventually haunt you. The Flyers had to play some college kid on some bogus deal because they had no cap space a few years back. You think they would have learned.

If the plan is to re-build then stick to it. Its painfully obvious thats what the team needs to do. Play the kids, and dont deal for vets who will soon have their games start to decline. The biggest priority for a "proper rebuild" is realising you arent close to winning anything, and needing to become a better hockey club through the draft. Maybe reality is shoving that up the Flyers ass right now.

The numbers simply underline the issue. I try, as much as possible, to validate what I see with numbers. When you look across the board, the numbers illustrate that good teams roll four lines.
- Jsaquella

overblown.

I want everyone to watch some sixers tonight. While your watching, know this. The Sixers are the closest team to winning a championship in this city.

agreed. will be interesting to see where this team is in 5 years. based on recent history, we shouldn't expect to see the plan in action, whatever that plan is.
- hammarby31

That's why I worry. If Snider's pushing for more changes, God only knows what happens.

I think the reason the are faltering is because of the top line(s) not producing, the 4th line not being able to handle a defensive role, and our top defenseman looking like bottom pairing defenseman.
- youarewrong

Agreed.

That's why I worry. If Snider's pushing for more changes, God only knows what happens.
- Jsaquella

Depends what the changes are for me. Dealing the veterans on this team including Hartnell? By all means!

Dealing parts of the young core other than Read, Giroux and Voracek? I would probably have said no in the past but by all means.

Make changes if you so choose, but bring in talented you, that have more than one dimension to their game, and actualy hockey sense. This team has had a low hockey IQ for a while now, and I truly believe that.

Crims brought up a point of what a true re-build is. Its not for one, strapping yourself down with contracts that will eventually haunt you. The Flyers had to play some college kid on some bogus deal because they had no cap space a few years back. You think they would have learned.

If the plan is to re-build then stick to it. Its painfully obvious thats what the team needs to do. Play the kids, and dont deal for vets who will soon have their games start to decline. The biggest priority for a "proper rebuild" is realising you arent close to winning anything, and needing to become a better hockey club through the draft. Maybe reality is shoving that up the Flyers ass right now.
- flyer_nutter

Proper rebuild is to make the team a better one that can sustain it for a significant period of time. It doesn't mean that it has to be long and drawn out for 5 or 6 years.

It doesn't mean that you ignore adding veterans, especially if they are not too old and can help for a number of years. It doesn't mean you hang on to every young guy and get gunshy about trading them. Look at Edmonton, they've played the kids and have been hesitant to trade them away, and they still aren't a good team

overblown.
- hammarby31

Using numbers or that good teams generally roll four capable lines?

Depends what the changes are for me. Dealing the veterans on this team including Hartnell? By all means!

Dealing parts of the young core other than Read, Giroux and Voracek? I would probably have said no in the past but by all means.

Make changes if you so choose, but bring in talented you, that have more than one dimension to their game, and actualy hockey sense. This team has had a low hockey IQ for a while now, and I truly believe that.
- flyer_nutter

Snider's changes would likely be to try and win as soon as possible, with little thought to what happens 3-5 years down the road.

I want everyone to watch some sixers tonight. While your watching, know this. The Sixers are the closest team to winning a championship in this city.
- Just5

I still believe it's the Flyers. And by a wide margin at that.

That's why I worry. If Snider's pushing for more changes, God only knows what happens.
- Jsaquella

The problem with plans is they rely upon players (and to a lesser extent coaches ), and performance, let alone chemistry, durability, etc., are very tough to predict.

I want everyone to watch some sixers tonight. While your watching, know this. The Sixers are the closest team to winning a championship in this city.
- Just5

There's more blown 1st rounders in the NBA than in the NHL. What if their lottery picks this year turn out to be the next Greg Oden & Sam Bowie?

Grab the pitchforks
- flyer_nutter

I just want them to win, or at least give themselves the best opportunity to do so.

Mistakes are made all the time, and some of them can cost people their jobs. That happens. You won't win every trade you make, and some draft picks won't pan out. Some young players will never develop.

But what frustrates me about this team is that they don't give themselves the best chance to do anything well.

If you say, "Come hell or high water, we're not trading Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier, they are our future," then you double-down and give them wingers. You support them. You don't move Schenn out of the middle and only put him back when Vincent Lecavalier gets hurt.

Sean Couturier's looked much better with Read and Simmonds as his wingers, right? No one would dispute that, I would think?

If we can't do anything about the defense right now, fine. I get it. But is it such a crime, then, to keep playing Gus? I don't want to start in on Andrej Meszaros again, but if Gus can't play, is Meszaros really the answer? We already know the answer to that, right?

If we're going young, then go young and support the young players as best you can. If you want to win now, then make everybody available for trade and address the issues you have.

But don't sign Lecavalier and Streit to long-term deals, bring back Timonen at $6 million per, play Meszaros, then tell us that the young players are untouchable.

Either get better with the young players performing, or use the young players to get better by cashing them in.

But this unholy mix of trying to do both simply is not working.

The problem with plans is they rely upon players (and to a lesser extent coaches ), and performance, let alone chemistry, durability, etc., are very tough to predict.
- wolfhounds

It's better than using a slap dash, knee jerk approach.

Had the Flyers planned better they have Matt Carle at a $4.75mm cap hit and don't have 4 defensemen who are primarily stay at home, less mobile guys with questionable puck skills.

They have either Luke Schenn or they have Nicklas Grossmann. Not both.

There's more blown 1st rounders in the NBA than in the NHL. What if their lottery picks this year turn out to be the next Greg Oden & Sam Bowie?
- Jsaquella

Theres always that possibility.

They will be the worst team in the NBA, which gives them a 25% chance at the top kid. They have all kinds of money to entice Lebron James to sign if they draft him.

With how bad they will be in a draft with more highly touted prospects in 10 years, and how good the free agent class is this upcoming summer. The Sixers have done well to position themselves for a very quick turnaround.

Proper rebuild is to make the team a better one that can sustain it for a significant period of time. It doesn't mean that it has to be long and drawn out for 5 or 6 years.
- Jsaquella

This.

With every shortcut/leap forward they tried to make, they shortened the window of that original rebuild group by a good margin. That window then basically slammed shut after they traded Richards/Carter and Pronger went down.

The present squad is just a mess... I'd like to think a new window is about to open for this group, with all the youngsters on the team and the ones on the horizon, but then I look at the unmovable commitments they've made to post-apex players and I wonder how the hell they're going to be able to make improvements and retain players moving forward.

Yes. Believe it or not, the players from that 2008 team get a lifetime pass for me. Jimmy Rollins and his lack of hustle, Ryan Howard's unusable legs, and Chase Utley's declining physically appealing hairstyle are all okay in my books because they got me one. Would I prefer them to win more and am I upset when they lose? Abolsutely. But yes, the core of that 2008 team are players I can never say, in the end, that I'm upset with.



Tell that to a TML fan.



The Pittsburgh/Chicago model has been to suck for 5-6 years and then put together a team that wins a Stanley Cup and continues to be a Stanley Cup Contender.

I guess I'd rather be the post-lockout Ducks that the Sharks. Year after year, the Sharks are a very good team that finishes near the top of their conference. And year after year, they let you down by underperforming in the playoffs. Same with Vancouver. Steady year after year, but never able to pull it off. The Ducks have had mostly good years but some bad years. But they were able to take it to the next level and win a Cup. To me, that's all that matters, winning the last game of the season.
- jmatchett383

I'll always think fondly of those players, but it still doesnt make watching now any easier. And as a matter of fact, I havent watched a single game in 2 years.

TML= the exception, not the rule.

For every Chicago and Pittsburgh I could give you 3 teams that sucked for 5-6 years and continued to suck becuase thier rebuild didnt work... Like Florida and Islanders, and toronto.

And for me, Hockey is really the only sport I really enjoy watching. I watch every game, and if they lose, I'm not happy. If they win, I am happy. If I go to games I dont want to spend money to watch them lose. So maybe its more important to me that they win. I would rather be San Jose then Anaheim, at least San Jose has hope every year. Sure it might not end up with the end result, but remember only 1 in 30 teams can win a cup.

Boudreau that master tactician ate Berube's lunch.


- PLindbergh31

Always over exaggerating things. I'm quite sure that Berube's strategy to counter it wasn't to constantly turn pucks over at the Flyers blueline. All 3 Ducks goals came from a turnover at the Flyers blueline.

This.

With every shortcut/leap forward they tried to make, they shortened the window of that original rebuild group by a good margin. That window then basically slammed shut after they traded Richards/Carter and Pronger went down.

The present squad is just a mess... I'd like to think a new window is about to open for this group, with all the youngsters on the team and the ones on the horizon, but then I look at the unmovable commitments they've made to post-apex players and I wonder how the hell they're going to be able to make improvements and retain players moving forward.
- Tomahawk

They will have to be smart about making moves. As a whole the pieces don;t fit. But individually they should be able to move them to get some assets.

They might not get their full perceived value in some or most of those deals, but it's what they face.

This.

With every shortcut/leap forward they tried to make, they shortened the window of that original rebuild group by a good margin. That window then basically slammed shut after they traded Richards/Carter and Pronger went down.

The present squad is just a mess... I'd like to think a new window is about to open for this group, with all the youngsters on the team and the ones on the horizon, but then I look at the unmovable commitments they've made to post-apex players and I wonder how the hell they're going to be able to make improvements and retain players moving forward.
- Tomahawk

When you think about the amount of players on the team that aren't in the prime years of their career on this team. It's easier to see why they're so bad. What is the plan though?

I'm pretty sure on the Cogliano goal, 2 of the players were leaving the zone to tag up and curling back in. they weren't back in a 1-2-2 per se. it all happened on the fly. as a matter of fact 3 were at the blue line when the dman threw the puck up to the Flyers zone
- nastyflyergirl

It absolutely was a 1-2-2. You can plainly see Cogliano curl to the other side of the ice before the turnover. They played it the whole 2nd half of the game. The lone forechecker was pressuring Grossmann in the Flyers zone.

They just cant operate efficiently in a cap environment. They've been an average team at best since 2005
- Just5

They went to the Cup Finals in a Cap environment.

It's better than using a slap dash, knee jerk approach.

Had the Flyers planned better they have Matt Carle at a $4.75mm cap hit and don't have 4 defensemen who are primarily stay at home, less mobile guys with questionable puck skills.

They have either Luke Schenn or they have Nicklas Grossmann. Not both.
- Jsaquella

No doubt. I hope the Flyers have some sort of plan, but they are definitely stuck between ice and a hard place. They don't want to play certain players very much, then bring up some kids, but then trading that player (Mesz for instance) becomes harder, and you certainly don't get full market value.

that's exactly right. there were also 3 flyers in the area where the puck battle was lost along the boards iirc.
- hammarby31

There was no puck battle on the Cogliano goal. There was a giveaway by Grossmann.

What is the plan though?
- Just5

The Plan: Spend More Money.