capgeek?
- justahockeyguy2

Combination of capgeek and mjlgeek!

He doesn't feel that way with all humans
- ob18

Whats on tap tonight in the CHL?

Agreed -- just talking about mix. The way the defense is currently, Grossmann and Schenn, if Schenn's only going to play 15 minutes a night...having them both doesn't work.

I'd love to keep Grossmann. But I have to be honest and say that, right now, Luke Schenn is someone whose trade value probably isn't what anyone would like it to be.
- AllInForFlyers

What you've seen in LSchenn is what you'll be getting. I don't see his ceiling to be any higher.

He's a stay at home d-man with limited mobility, aggressive with a very limited offensive upside. He was exactly that coming out of junior, was projected to be just that, and has been just that over the last 4.5 years.

He's had a bad stretch lately. He can play better for sure.

I like Luke Schenn, but the bittom line is, the Flyers gave up a guy who blossomed & now, there's very few people who would make the same trade just 18 months later
- Jsaquella

What's really going to matter is how it all works out in the end The two players aren't symbiotic. JVR had his struggles also, including bad stretches last Season. And I won't be surprised if he has some bad periods this Season also. And I fully expect L. Schenn to rebound.

Yeah, we just know the result...an expensive, immobile and subpar defense group, whose best puck mover is on an over 35 deal for $500K less than the solid 27 year old guy they let get away.

Either way, the end result looks bad
- Jsaquella

You just made a grown man cry. As a whole, they are so immobile, it's just painful to watch.

They're good guys, and I know Grossmann and Schenn play as hard as two physical defensemen possibly can. But oh, my gosh.

Kimmo at 38, Grossmann, Schenn and Meszaros in the lineup at the same time, with Streit just an average skater...

Last night was painful to watch.

What you've seen in LSchenn is what you'll be getting. I don't see his ceiling to be any higher.

He's a stay at home d-man with limited mobility, aggressive with a very limited offensive upside. He was exactly that coming out of junior, was projected to be just that, and has been just that over the last 4.5 years.

He's had a bad stretch lately. He can play better for sure.
- 77rams

There is lots of room for growth in L. Schenn's game. As was previously said, defenseman don't stop developing at 23.

I said it before, I think Carle is a better player and he's younger then Streit is. But I'm happy with Streit so far. But I'm also not under any illusions to think that if Carle was still here, the situation would be drastically different then it is now. He's a good player, but not that good. And with what Holmgren was trying to do, if he had succeeded, I think they would have been in a much better shape then they are now defensively.
- MJL

Saying that if Holmgren succeeded is simply speculation. ..the result is that he didn't succeed and that the high paid defense sucks

You just made a grown man cry. As a whole, they are so immobile, it's just painful to watch.

They're good guys, and I know Grossmann and Schenn play as hard as two physical defensemen possibly can. But oh, my gosh.

Kimmo at 38, Grossmann, Schenn and Meszaros in the lineup at the same time, with Streit just an average skater...

Last night was painful to watch.
- AllInForFlyers

Easier said then done, but adding one player changes everything.

Sixers up 13-0 on the champs!!! OMG I was wrong!

Whats on tap tonight in the CHL?
- Just5

Watching Guelph vs Peterborough tonight.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/

Saying that if Holmgren succeeded is simply speculation. ..the result is that he didn't succeed and that the high paid defense sucks
- Jsaquella

I disagree that the defense sucks. I think they need to tweak the mix. I think individually, they're all solid players. He didn't succeed. But the point I was trying to make is that I'm okay with what Holmgren was trying to do there.

Sixers up 13-0 on the champs!!! OMG I was wrong!
- Just5

19-0!

Tyler Bertuzzi says he is meaner that his uncle Todd......

19-0!
- Just5

Basketball is the least of the topics on here lol sorry man.

There's always something new to loathe for some people.
- JAKEw1234

You're correct. For some people, it is always something new.

But there are some people who claimed the moment the trade was announced that it was a bad move.

And some people still feel that way despite that some other people may think it's a something new.

There is lots of room for growth in L. Schenn's game. As was previously said, defenseman don't stop developing at 23.
- MJL

Some stop developing out of junior.

I disagree that the defense sucks. I think they need to tweak the mix. I think individually, they're all solid players. He didn't succeed. But the point I was trying to make is that I'm okay with what Holmgren was trying to do there.
- MJL

They just need defenseman that are puck movers. Mezsaros isn't the same and neither is Kimmo. So another GOOD puck mover would be suffice, plus another defensive defenseman that is responsible in his own end. As a matter of fact, just a few defenseman that have GREAT instincts smh

Some stop developing out of junior.
- 77rams

They do, and some never make it to the NHL level. But what makes you think that Schenn is done developing?

Some stop developing out of junior.
- 77rams

Some are also rushed & their confidence is crushed to the point they can't figure out how to get it back.

The Sixers have a 20 point lead on Lebron James right now.

I disagree that the defense sucks. I think they need to tweak the mix. I think individually, they're all solid players. He didn't succeed. But the point I was trying to make is that I'm okay with what Holmgren was trying to do there.
- MJL

I was OK with what he tried, but the bottom line is that the team has gotten progressively worse, because he failed to land Suter or Weber.

He's now paying a lesser player almost the same money that he could be paying to Matt Carle.

As a group, the defense has some quality and depth. As a unit, it's subpar.

They do, and some never make it to the NHL level. But what makes you think that Schenn is done developing?
- MJL

Has he gotten much better since he's been in the league? Wasnt his best year his first? Thats not promising.

Some are also rushed & their confidence is crushed to the point they can't figure out how to get it back.
- ob18

Or they were just never that good to begin with.

I don't really ascribe to the theory that NHL players who are rushed will fail to develop. There's no real way to prove it. I can't imagine getting to play up ever crushes a kid. I'd guess that for some maybe their creativity is hampered or due to their early rise maybe they become misused. Couturier could fall into the latter category.

Still in all I think if a prospect is going to be an NHL player he will be.

I was OK with what he tried, but the bottom line is that the team has gotten progressively worse, because he failed to land Suter or Weber.

He's now paying a lesser player almost the same money that he could be paying to Matt Carle.

As a group, the defense has some quality and depth. As a unit, it's subpar.
- Jsaquella

I don't think the difference between Carle and Striet is catastrophic to this team, or to the defense. I've been pleased with Streit so far. One move can change everything. Holmgren has built a quality defense before. I think he can do it again. They also have some quality defense prospects.

You're correct. For some people, it is always something new.

But there are some people who claimed the moment the trade was announced that it was a bad move.

And some people still feel that way despite that some other people may think it's a something new.
- 77rams

I was OK with the trade at the time, because I like Luke Schenn. I still do. But JvR has blossomed, while Schenn is still battling inconsistency on a night by night, shift by shift basis.

My opinion has changed over time. I still like Luke Schenn, but I also think that the move was a poor value move, especially in hindsight.