Every year the Flyers make moves and add players in Free Agency, and have money to spend. Can you prove that it did? You made the assertion, the onus is on you.
- MJL

I already did, above.

They wanted to keep Matt Carle... but no tagging space... they lost Matt Carle in the summer.

I already did, above.

They wanted to keep Matt Carle... but no tagging space... they lost Matt Carle in the summer.
- Tomahawk

No you didn't. Show me the numbers and how exactly it prevented the Flyers from re-signing Carle. You're just making blind assumptions. You have no idea what the tagging space figure needed was. It could have been more then the combined Cap hits of the players that you mentioned that was needed. There's plenty of assumptions that can be made, including that the Flyers really didn't want to re-sign Carle at the number that it took.


Do you even know how tagging space is calculated?

So, Varlamov is in a little trouble.

If he is sentenced to, say, a year in jail. Will he still count against the cap?
- Bearintheforest

Good question.

Good question.
- MJL

Can you, or anyone else for that matter, think of any cap era examples where players have been sent to jail?

No you didn't. Show me the numbers and how exactly it prevented the Flyers from re-signing Carle. You're just making blind assumptions. You have no idea what the tagging space figure needed was. It could have been more then the combined Cap hits of the players that you mentioned that was needed. There's plenty of assumptions that can be made, including that the Flyers really didn't want to re-sign Carle at the number that it took.
- MJL

At worst, they were very strong contributors to Carle not being able to be re-signed in the offseason... especially in light of those three guys suited up for a grand total of 5 NHL games... if not for injuries, all three would have spent most of the year in ADK. Homer would have cut them out of the equation first, if he could.

That combined $3.5M in silly contracts more than likely represented the difference between getting something done w/ Carle during the season, and having to push it into the summer.

You've said it yourself in the past... operating under the cap system is all about making trade-offs and choices. Now, you're going to pretend that those trade-offs and choices don't exist?

*THROWS CHAIR*
- Crimsoninja

I imagine there's a room in your home full of broken chairs

- hammarby31

She'll be waiting till her death..........

None of those contracts stopped the Flyers from doing anything they wanted to do.
- MJL

oh really? do you know that? do you? for sure? you talked with holmgren directly and he shared that every move they wanted to make was accomplished regardless of their circumstances?

At worst, they were very strong contributors to Carle not being able to be re-signed in the offseason... especially in light of those three guys suited up for a grand total of 5 NHL games... if not for injuries, all three would have spent most of the year in ADK. Homer would have cut them out of the equation first, if he could.

That combined $3.5M in silly contracts more than likely represented the difference between getting something done w/ Carle during the season, and having to push it into the summer.

You've said it yourself in the past... operating under the cap system is all about making trade-offs and choices. Now, you're going to pretend that those trade-offs and choices don't exist?
- Tomahawk

More then likely isn't proving anything. And that they were silly contracts is just your opinion. And where did I pretend something doesn't exist? Now you're just making stuff up. Bottom line is that the narrative that you want to give, that there is cap mismanagement, and it cost them a player like Carle is false. In fact I've contended all along, and said so in this thread, that the Flyers made choices and tried to land a bigger fish, and were willing to risk losing Carle to do so. Now you try and tell me that I'm pretending those trade offs and choices don't exist. That's the only thing that's silly here. I wish that some fans could sit down with Barry Hanrahan and Paul Holmgren and give them the cap mismanagement speach, and get schooled in how that's wrong and off base. It would be enlightening for some.

None of us know the particulars of the Carle negotiation and how it went down. The bottom line is that if both the Flyers and Carle had agreed to a deal, the Salary Cap would not have prevented it from getting done at some point.

oh really? do you know that? do you? for sure? you talked with holmgren directly and he shared that every move they wanted to make was accomplished regardless of their circumstances?
- hammarby31

Year after year Flyers add players and have Cap space to make moves. They have no problem operating under the Cap. I'm available to discuss any aspect of the NHL Salary Cap that you want to discuss.

This is continuing to narrow the scope and only looking at the factors that you want to look at, to label the trade a bad trade. Adding a young NHL defenseman with a lot of promise was an enormous need in the Organization. Now you only want to look at what type of defenseman they added, and say they didn't get the right kind of player.
- MJL

i could quote you questioning the type of plyr we received that day, so then what?

Year after year Flyers add players and have Cap space to make moves. They have no problem operating under the Cap. I'm available to discuss any aspect of the NHL Salary Cap that you want to discuss.
- MJL

you didn't answer my question. and the answer is obvious, which is "no". you didn't. you don't have a f'ng clue about what they "wanted" to do.

I think the youth on this team was protected a couple years ago with jäger and timonen being on his game, Briere, etc. now that they are gone and timonen is older, we are seeing the typical struggles you see with a youn team. They are in transition where the younger players are now takin the reins and it comes with growing pains. May still need some roster adjustments, but that's what I see happening right now.

i could quote you questioning the type of plyr we received that day, so then what?
- isaiah520

Knock yourself out! We've discussed this many times previously. As a fan, emotions are involved with a trade and an initial spontaneous reaction is made. That's only human. After that, you sit back and with clarity and objectivity, you look at a deal from a different perspective. And you gain an understanding on why a deal was made.

I think the youth on this team was protected a couple years ago with jäger and timonen being on his game, Briere, etc. now that they are gone and timonen is older, we are seeing the typical struggles you see with a youn team. They are in transition where the younger players are now takin the reins and it comes with growing pains. May still need some roster adjustments, but that's what I see happening right now.
- funmaster18

I agree 100%.

Heres my opinion, why is everybody so upset that we traded JVR? He sucked as a flyer, he wasnt going to pan out in Philly. JVR was traded for Schenn because we had a hole on defense with Carles absence. Schenn is still young and rounding into form, it takes more time for young d-men to develop, I mean does anyone notice that he is among the league leaders in hits and blocked shots? The moment we traded JVR, he started to have success. Some players play better in different organizations. Richards and Carter were not going to deliver a Stanley Cup as the top players and the Flyers had a better player in Giroux that they would rather invest in. This team we have currently assembled is young, with a good mix of grit and skill with plenty of speed up front, they have (2) very good puck moving defensemen and powerplay QB's in Timonen and Streit, Even Coburn can skate well. This is not the GM's fault. We have a bunch of players on this team that were 1st rd draft picks at one point. The skill is there. On paper this team is deadly, on the ice they are unorganized and have no chemistry. No team in the league is going to win much without chemistry. Does anyone discount how Laviolette failed to have this team prepared at the start of the season? Totally unacceptable. Holmgren made moves that he needed to make at the time to fill certain holes.

I think the youth on this team was protected a couple years ago with jäger and timonen being on his game, Briere, etc. now that they are gone and timonen is older, we are seeing the typical struggles you see with a youn team. They are in transition where the younger players are now takin the reins and it comes with growing pains. May still need some roster adjustments, but that's what I see happening right now.
- funmaster18

if those struggles included those of a young, puck moving dman, we wouldn't feel so F'ed. a lot of this is about how the team was constructed, what kind of plan was in mind...or lack of.

Heres my opinion, why is everybody so upset that we traded JVR? He sucked as a flyer, he wasnt going to pan out in Philly. JVR was traded for Schenn because we had a hole on defense with Carles absence. Schenn is still young and rounding into form, it takes more time for young d-men to develop, I mean does anyone notice that he is among the league leaders in hits and blocked shots? The moment we traded JVR, he started to have success. Some players play better in different organizations. Richards and Carter were not going to deliver a Stanley Cup as the top players and the Flyers had a better player in Giroux that they would rather invest in. This team we have currently assembled is young, with a good mix of grit and skill with plenty of speed up front, they have (2) very good puck moving defensemen and powerplay QB's in Timonen and Streit, Even Coburn can skate well. This is not the GM's fault. We have a bunch of players on this team that were 1st rd draft picks at one point. The skill is there. On paper this team is deadly, on the ice they are unorganized and have no chemistry. No team in the league is going to win much without chemistry. Does anyone discount how Laviolette failed to have this team prepared at the start of the season? Totally unacceptable. Holmgren made moves that he needed to make at the time to fill certain holes.
- GOA88

At the time of the trade I thought it was a fair deal. The issue is how high you thought the ceiling was for each player. JVR is getting to his faster but that doesn't mean it's higher than Schenns. With Schenn being the kind of defenseman he is, I have to wait a little longer before I decide if it was worth the trade.

you didn't answer my question. and the answer is obvious, which is "no". you didn't. you don't have a f'ng clue about what they "wanted" to do.
- hammarby31

Sure I do. You look at the moves they made, and you know what they wanted to do. In the 12/13 off season they made UFA offers of over 100M to Suter and Parise. They sent an offer sheet for a contract of over 100M for Weber. They singed Bryzgalov to a huge UFA deal in the recent past. This past off season they signed Lecavalier and Streit to big free agent deals. But were led to believe that cap mismanagement is stopping the Flyers from making the moves they want to make.

Heres my opinion, why is everybody so upset that we traded JVR? He sucked as a flyer, he wasnt going to pan out in Philly. JVR was traded for Schenn because we had a hole on defense with Carles absence. Schenn is still young and rounding into form, it takes more time for young d-men to develop, I mean does anyone notice that he is among the league leaders in hits and blocked shots? The moment we traded JVR, he started to have success. Some players play better in different organizations. Richards and Carter were not going to deliver a Stanley Cup as the top players and the Flyers had a better player in Giroux that they would rather invest in. This team we have currently assembled is young, with a good mix of grit and skill with plenty of speed up front, they have (2) very good puck moving defensemen and powerplay QB's in Timonen and Streit, Even Coburn can skate well. This is not the GM's fault. We have a bunch of players on this team that were 1st rd draft picks at one point. The skill is there. On paper this team is deadly, on the ice they are unorganized and have no chemistry. No team in the league is going to win much without chemistry. Does anyone discount how Laviolette failed to have this team prepared at the start of the season? Totally unacceptable. Holmgren made moves that he needed to make at the time to fill certain holes.
- GOA88

if those struggles included those of a young, puck moving dman, we wouldn't feel so F'ed. a lot of this is about how the team was constructed, what kind of plan was in mind...or lack of.
- isaiah520

I think the plan is ok. I don't think the flyers look at their d corps and say we are set for the future. I'm going to be patient this season and next offseason. If we are in te same place next year I'll start to worry.

if those struggles included those of a young, puck moving dman, we wouldn't feel so F'ed. a lot of this is about how the team was constructed, what kind of plan was in mind...or lack of.
- isaiah520

It's more about they didn't follow the exact plan that you wanted them to follow, rather then a lack of a plan.

At the time of the trade I thought it was a fair deal. The issue is how high you thought the ceiling was for each player. JVR is getting to his faster but that doesn't mean it's higher than Schenns. With Schenn being the kind of defenseman he is, I have to wait a little longer before I decide if it was worth the trade.
- funmaster18

Well said!

Well said!
- MJL

I slept well last night

Did you see this about why Seth Jones fell to #4

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-...n/2013/10/seth-jones.html
- ob18

I was at the draft with my nephew and we were just shocked that Jones dropped from 2 to 4.