I understand concern. What we saw today was straight-up rage and misinformation -- and yeah, I get that people like certain players, but at some point, there is an attachment to players on a team that isn't performing that is unhealthy.
- AllInForFlyers

I think we really only saw rage from a couple of posters. One had some legitimate reasons. The other was just rambling on.

I haven't read very many posts resisting the trade. Nutter is the only one that comes to mind. We should just relax.

I still think there's a shoe to drop b/w Hartnell and Simmonds. Providing Downie comes in and does what he's asked to do. I just don't like the mix of those 3 players on the same team. Downie is supposed to come in and provide a spark. A spark is a big part of the job descriptions of Hartnell and Simmonds among other things they will ask of Downie that Hartnell/Simmonds you'd think should be providing.
- Just5

Nutter and a few Pens fans, who used to think that Talbot was great when he was a Pen ... extremely overrated when a Flyer ... and now back to great again now that he's an Av.

I think we really only saw rage from a couple of posters. One had some legitimate reasons. The other was just rambling on.
- MJL

Lol you haven't seen bad until you look at Facebook on the Flyers page. Holy poop, I think the "fans" are about to grab their pitchforks and march to Homers house.

u guys think Downie plays tomorrow or Saturday or does he need more time to adjust to his line mates?

u guys think Downie plays tomorrow or Saturday or does he need more time to adjust to his line mates?
- jstross

He will absolutely play tomorrow night. No reason not to.

You can't have 3 players to provide a spark on the same team? Still not sure what the problem is having those 3 players on the same team.
- MJL

Who knows? Maybe it won't be a problem. None of those players are ideal if you want to put out a 3rd shutdown line.

I've been baffled on HB before...never more so than today. I've never been more confused than I was today.
- AllInForFlyers

It's not a cure all trade, and there are valid concerns that I have about it, but overall it's a good trade. They got the best player in the deal, he's younger and he fills a need on the team.

Really hard to see a negative if you look at it rationally.

Lol you haven't seen bad until you look at Facebook on the Flyers page. Holy poop, I think the "fans" are about to grab their pitchforks and march to Homers house.
- justahockeyguy2

oh oh I know! Did someone say "Holmer how can you trade this guy he gets run into the boards, smashed his face, and then came out the next period this guy was born to be a Flyler this is how you treat him!!"


It's the Aaron Rowand effect. Freaking guy was an average player at best. Runs into the wall and breaks his nose catching a pop fly. Lets build a statue for him and take a poop on Ryan Howard's head.

I've never lived anywere else. But like someone else said 90-95% of Philly fans are dumb.

It's not a cure all trade, and there are valid concerns that I have about it, but overall it's a good trade. They got the best player in the deal, he's younger and he fills a need on the team.

Really hard to see a negative if you look at it rationally.
- Jsaquella

I still don't understand it a bit from the Avs standpoint. Maybe they were hurting for a locker room vet that bad... Could've snagged a similar player off waivers if they showed a little patience.

Getting the players to address the defense and add a sniper would gut the team of it's youth.
- MJL

if you are referring to b schenn and couts - good riddance.

I still don't understand it a bit from the Avs standpoint. Maybe they were hurting for a locker room vet that bad... Could've snagged a similar player off waivers if they showed a little patience.
- hereticpride

There's a couple reasons I could see the Avs making this move. First, they have a lot of pending free agents this summer, and Downie clears one off the list.

Two, they just lost MacLeod to an injury and he was one of their regular PK guys.

Roy specifically mentioned wanting another good PK guy and that Max was signed for a couple more years when he was asked about the trade.

Someone needs to talk to RAJ because Gilleck mastered the art of minor pieces to bolster a the club. RAJ was forever looking for the blockbuster. On pace to win 100 games he trade 2 top 100 prospects and another stud, plus a give away for a player he dumped for jump change 1 year later. Ugh!
- jstross

Stop, you're killing me!

It's not a cure all trade, and there are valid concerns that I have about it, but overall it's a good trade. They got the best player in the deal, he's younger and he fills a need on the team.

Really hard to see a negative if you look at it rationally.
- Jsaquella

And that's the biggest thing: No trade is perfect, or has no risk. We all talked yesterday about not wanting Paul Holmgren to make a bad trade, or one for an aging veteran, or sacrifice a young player.

Instead, the guy pulls a rabbit out of a hat and actually gets a Top 9 player -- and someone we are not contractually obligated with for more than the rest of this year if it doesn't work or he wants to leave -- opens up a roster spot for Scott Laughton or someone else next year if Downie does not stay...but didn't cripple the NHL roster because we still have a fourth-line center and penalty killer who can play some in Adam Hall.

I don't know what else Paul Holmgren could've checked off on the boxes of his worksheet for "What to Do When You Make a Trade in the NHL."

There's a couple reasons I could see the Avs making this move. First, they have a lot of pending free agents this summer, and Downie clears one off the list.

Two, they just lost MacLeod to an injury and he was one of their regular PK guys.

Roy specifically mentioned wanting another good PK guy and that Max was signed for a couple more years when he was asked about the trade.
- Jsaquella

Valid concerns. I just dont understand why they moved a guy playing on their first line to do it. At least wait til the deadline. They couldve got a stronger offer from a playoff team for a player like Downie for sure.

if you are referring to b schenn and couts - good riddance.
- moylander

Whoa. They're 22 and 20 respectively and still have time to perform. That aside, who do you think you would get for them?

Valid concerns. I just dont understand why they moved a guy playing on their first line to do it. At least wait til the deadline. They couldve got a stronger offer from a playoff team for a player like Downie for sure.
- hereticpride

That's an answer that we don't have...perhaps they felt that Talbot's Stanley Cup experience was more important than Downie's energy. They are a young team, and Talbot does know how to win.

Maybe Downie butted heads with Roy...wouldn;t be the first time a team made a rash decision because a guy butted heads with his coach.

Valid concerns. I just dont understand why they moved a guy playing on their first line to do it. At least wait til the deadline. They couldve got a stronger offer from a playoff team for a player like Downie for sure.
- hereticpride

IMO Downie is like Maroon on Anaheim's 1st line, he's a guy you can move between the top 3 lines and he's going to give you the same thing. By himself, he's not an elite player, but he's solid, he contributes, he's tough and knows how to compete. And that's good for the Flyers as it gives us - Hopefully - 3 legitimate scoring lines.

if you are referring to b schenn and couts - good riddance.
- moylander

lol

And that's the biggest thing: No trade is perfect, or has no risk. We all talked yesterday about not wanting Paul Holmgren to make a bad trade, or one for an aging veteran, or sacrifice a young player.

Instead, the guy pulls a rabbit out of a hat and actually gets a Top 9 player -- and someone we are not contractually obligated with for more than the rest of this year if it doesn't work or he wants to leave -- opens up a roster spot for Scott Laughton or someone else next year if Downie does not stay...but didn't cripple the NHL roster because we still have a fourth-line center and penalty killer who can play some in Adam Hall.

I don't know what else Paul Holmgren could've checked off on the boxes of his worksheet for "What to Do When You Make a Trade in the NHL."
- AllInForFlyers

I think a lot of times, the 610 WIP mentality can't handle processing a trade that doesn't fill a glaring hole immediately.

It's like when you obviously need a good starting pitcher, and you trade for a good outfielder. Sure, you needed an outfielder, but pitcher's a bigger need.

They don't seem to understand that making one trade doesn't mean that another isn't coming. You don't turn down a good trade when it lands on your door, just because it doesn't immediately fill a bigger need.

It's not as if trading Talbot for Downie will prevent them from landing a defenseman down the road.

That's an answer that we don't have...perhaps they felt that Talbot's Stanley Cup experience was more important than Downie's energy. They are a young team, and Talbot does know how to win.

Maybe Downie butted heads with Roy...wouldn;t be the first time a team made a rash decision because a guy butted heads with his coach.
- Jsaquella

If I had to make an educated guess, it would be this.

Roy has obviously made an impression as a volatile coach ... and it's no stretch to imagine that his personality would clash with any number of players.

That's an answer that we don't have...perhaps they felt that Talbot's Stanley Cup experience was more important than Downie's energy. They are a young team, and Talbot does know how to win.

Maybe Downie butted heads with Roy...wouldn;t be the first time a team made a rash decision because a guy butted heads with his coach.
- Jsaquella

And maybe the Varlamov thing made them realize just how young they really are -- their captain is 20 years old.

Talbot's a good veteran for them, not old, and can help them over the course of a long season where they are going to have some rougher times than they have now -- they don't talk about it much, but Ryan O'Reilly's year of being unable to be traded is going to be up after that offer-sheet match from last year. There's no guarantee that they're going to pay that salary when he's up -- but moving Downie and locking in Talbot's salary gives them a bit more room to do that, if that's what they want to do.

And that's the biggest thing: No trade is perfect, or has no risk. We all talked yesterday about not wanting Paul Holmgren to make a bad trade, or one for an aging veteran, or sacrifice a young player.

Instead, the guy pulls a rabbit out of a hat and actually gets a Top 9 player -- and someone we are not contractually obligated with for more than the rest of this year if it doesn't work or he wants to leave -- opens up a roster spot for Scott Laughton or someone else next year if Downie does not stay...but didn't cripple the NHL roster because we still have a fourth-line center and penalty killer who can play some in Adam Hall.

I don't know what else Paul Holmgren could've checked off on the boxes of his worksheet for "What to Do When You Make a Trade in the NHL."
- AllInForFlyers

I give Homer all the credit in the world. If Pronger is still healthy, this is a completely different team. If he lands any of Weber, Suter or Parise, this is a completely different team. He tried to patch the holes, it just hasn't worked out, partly because bodies weren't available after those failed attempts.

That being said, every GM runs his course and comes to the end. Unless this season turns around, Homer's is probably coming up.

Nutter and a few Pens fans, who used to think that Talbot was great when he was a Pen ... extremely overrated when a Flyer ... and now back to great again now that he's an Av.

- FlyerGuy

Re-read the posts again bud. I could give a rats ass about Talbot, and said he was trending down since his first year here.

The point being it would have been smarter to trade him at the deadline when teams are more desperate. That and make a run at Downie if you really when him when he hits UFA status in the summer. That, and paying Steve 3+million/year is a wonderful idea.

I give Homer all the credit in the world. If Pronger is still healthy, this is a completely different team. If he lands any of Weber, Suter or Parise, this is a completely different team. He tried to patch the holes, it just hasn't worked out, partly because bodies weren't available after those failed attempts.

That being said, every GM runs his course and comes to the end. Unless this season turns around, Homer's is probably coming up.
- wolfhounds

And I'm honest enough to say that is fair. Sometimes, you take risks and you win. Sometimes, you take risks and you lose. Win enough, you get to stay. Lose enough, you don't.

That's pro sports -- that evaluation isn't always perfect, or fair. But it's pro sports, and I do think that the Flyers...I think it's going to be difficult for Paul Holmgren to keep his job if they don't turn this thing around, really strongly.

And maybe the Varlamov thing made them realize just how young they really are -- their captain is 20 years old.

Talbot's a good veteran for them, not old, and can help them over the course of a long season where they are going to have some rougher times than they have now -- they don't talk about it much, but Ryan O'Reilly's year of being unable to be traded is going to be up after that offer-sheet match from last year. There's no guarantee that they're going to pay that salary when he's up -- but moving Downie and locking in Talbot's salary gives them a bit more room to do that, if that's what they want to do.
- AllInForFlyers

Could have played a role, too...for sure.

Right now, it's a good trade because they took acceptable risks and got a good player that fills a need.

It might end up being a deal that helps the team in the long term as well as the short term. The cost wasn't crippling in the long term either way.