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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 11/1/13 vs. Washington
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jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Nov 1 @ 2:29 PM ET
JVR needed a trade to mature...He wasnt doing poop here in philly. Im glad hes gone.
- PhillaBully

Thats simply inaccurate.

As Bill and I have pointed out multiple times.. JvR (prior to his injury plagued season) had put up very good numbers.. 30+ goals 30+ assists over his 82 previous games... He was inconsistent. But thats natural for big forwards. Theres a whole host of similar comparisons.

He was statistically our #2 forward the last year and a half of two seasons he was here.
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Nov 1 @ 2:30 PM ET
That's a matter of opinion. What type of D man would you want?
- MJL

What we sorely lacked.. a young puck mover...

I personally wanted him packaged in a deal. I would rather over pay for a guy like Enstrom or a player of his ilk, than "settle" for Schenn.
flyer_nutter
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Unleash the Peanuts, MB
Joined: 10.16.2008

Nov 1 @ 2:31 PM ET
But what about.

The "facts"
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 1 @ 2:32 PM ET
Weber, Chara, need me to keep going...
- JW98FlyerFan



There's a lot of them. And there's also a number of top pair defensive defenseman who don't bring a lot of offense and has been over the years. And there's no doubt that the League is moving towards defenseman who are more mobile and with puck skills. As it's a passing possession game these days. That doesn't mean that Schenn can't develop into a top pairing compliment for a #1 defenseman on a top pairing.
Scoob
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: love is love
Joined: 06.29.2006

Nov 1 @ 2:32 PM ET
Didn't he pop blake because blake came out and said downie shouldn't be allowed to play in the nhl after the mccammond hit?
- twotoekenn


If that's the case, I'm not sure a sucker punch is a good way to prove him wrong.
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

Nov 1 @ 2:32 PM ET
Regardless it's still inexcusable.
- MJL


Yeah, and RG III didn't come in shape for Dallas season...Seriously, that is what you are saying...

Schenn was in shape for LAVI's system...He is not in Shape for CHIEF's system...and he is not the fastest guy in the world, so that is a big change...

If you ever ran in your life you would know the one rule on running, speed...use it or lose it...skating is the same way...you need to use it or it is not going to be there...
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Nov 1 @ 2:32 PM ET
That's a matter of opinion. There's plenty of D men who play 20 minutes a night in defensvie situations. Are you seriously asking me how many top pair shutdown D men there are? It seems as though you are suggesting that there aren't any?
- MJL

Im talking top pairing shutdown d-men like you said. How many are there... who are they.

In order to be a top pairing guy in todays game, you need to have a dynamic make up... Its just the evolution of the game.

Pre-lockout.. Schenn would absolutely fit the bill as a prospective top pair shutdown guy. But those days are lonngg gone.
PLindbergh31
Location: NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

Nov 1 @ 2:33 PM ET
But what about.

The "facts"

- flyer_nutter


The facts are, Burke ate Holmgren's lunch.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 1 @ 2:33 PM ET
What we sorely lacked.. a young puck mover...

I personally wanted him packaged in a deal. I would rather over pay for a guy like Enstrom or a player of his ilk, than "settle" for Schenn.

- jak521



That player has to be available to get him. I don't see many young top puck movin defenseman being dealt.
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Nov 1 @ 2:33 PM ET
Weber, Chara, need me to keep going...
- JW98FlyerFan

Weber and Chara are routinely among the top offensive producing d-men in the game. They are absolutely not defensive dmen. They excel in all aspects defensively.
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Nov 1 @ 2:34 PM ET
That player has to be available to get him. I don't see many young top puck movin defenseman being dealt.
- MJL

Every player has his cost.. I understand they have to be available.
PhillaBully
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.20.2010

Nov 1 @ 2:34 PM ET
Thats simply inaccurate.

As Bill and I have pointed out multiple times.. JvR (prior to his injury plagued season) had put up very good numbers.. 30+ goals 30+ assists over his 82 previous games... He was inconsistent. But thats natural for big forwards. Theres a whole host of similar comparisons.

He was statistically our #2 forward the last year and a half of two seasons he was here.

- jak521


Stop being a jvr apoligist. He was MIA for games at a time. projection dont count for poop.
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Nov 1 @ 2:34 PM ET
So hype doesn't exist in hockey world?
- Flyersgod



Is that what I said?
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

Nov 1 @ 2:34 PM ET
What we sorely lacked.. a young puck mover...

I personally wanted him packaged in a deal. I would rather over pay for a guy like Enstrom or a player of his ilk, than "settle" for Schenn.

- jak521


We had colburn, Carle and Kimmo...we didn't know Carle was going to run away the first day of UFA for a rediculous amount of money.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Nov 1 @ 2:35 PM ET
All ifs Joe. McGinn has played a handful of NHL games. If you don't want to look at the numbers, let's look at skill level. Either way you slice it, Downie is a top 9 forward in this League.
- MJL

K let's say for sake of argument he's a top whatever forward... Wouldn't you agree that the flyers need to build and establish a "winning identity"? And if so does downie fit into that mold with his mediocre stat sheet, injury history and lack of discipline? This team has an abundance of forwards that don't back check well and now have not only added more of that to the mix but someone who can put then shorthanded on a regular and unneeded basis.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 1 @ 2:35 PM ET
Im talking top pairing shutdown d-men like you said. How many are there... who are they.

In order to be a top pairing guy in todays game, you need to have a dynamic make up... Its just the evolution of the game.

Pre-lockout.. Schenn would absolutely fit the bill as a prospective top pair shutdown guy. But those days are lonngg gone.

- jak521



Andy McDonald, Joe Girardi, Travis Hamonic. And there's been plenty in the past. You don't have to be a dynamic player to be a top pairing guy. That is certainly the trend in the League, but it is not an absolute. Players such as Willie Mitchell and Brooks Orpik have been incredibly instrumental and important to those teams that won the Cup in the past.
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

Nov 1 @ 2:36 PM ET
Weber and Chara are routinely among the top offensive producing d-men in the game. They are absolutely not defensive dmen. They excel in all aspects defensively.
- jak521

Not when they started...Chara was not the beast he is today when he was with OTT...he GREW into that role...
nastyflyergirl
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: this space for rent, PA
Joined: 09.19.2006

Nov 1 @ 2:36 PM ET
Great...but with a #2 pick who was inconsistent for Philly, do you think you were getting lidstrom back in a trade...hell no...they got exactly what JVR was...a project...
- JW98FlyerFan



he was what? 22, 23? coming off of only 3 seasons in the NHL with the last one being injury plagued of course. People just expect players to come into the NHL and be instant stars. Yes, that may happen with some but most others take time and patience. He showed progress every season. .449 PPG, .533, .558, .667 and 1.080. I will never like that the Flyers moved him. Never. But like I said earlier, I try to separate Schenn from who the Flyers traded for him. I like Schenn
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 1 @ 2:37 PM ET
K let's say for sake of argument he's a top whatever forward... Wouldn't you agree that the flyers need to build and establish a "winning identity"? And if so does downie fit into that mold with his mediocre stat sheet, injury history and lack of discipline? This team has an abundance of forwards that don't back check well and now have not only added more of that to the mix but someone who can put then shorthanded on a regular and unneeded basis.
- JoeRussomanno



Teams evolve and develop over time. Young players and young teams develop that "winning identity" You said the right words. Build and establish.
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

Nov 1 @ 2:38 PM ET
alright folks...on my way to grab a six'r and get ready to watch Downie put one in the net on a L. schenn assit...enjoy the banter...LET'S GO FLYERS!!!!
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 1 @ 2:39 PM ET
Yeah, and RG III didn't come in shape for Dallas season...Seriously, that is what you are saying...

Schenn was in shape for LAVI's system...He is not in Shape for CHIEF's system...and he is not the fastest guy in the world, so that is a big change...

If you ever ran in your life you would know the one rule on running, speed...use it or lose it...skating is the same way...you need to use it or it is not going to be there...

- JW98FlyerFan



Laviolette's system required the same amount of skating, if not more. Especially for defenseman. What prevented him from skating in the off season?
hereticpride
New Jersey Devils
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

Nov 1 @ 2:40 PM ET
K let's say for sake of argument he's a top whatever forward... Wouldn't you agree that the flyers need to build and establish a "winning identity"? And if so does downie fit into that mold with his mediocre stat sheet, injury history and lack of discipline? This team has an abundance of forwards that don't back check well and now have not only added more of that to the mix but someone who can put then shorthanded on a regular and unneeded basis.
- JoeRussomanno

Isn't it possible they aquired Downie to lessen the blow of trading a Simmonds or Hartnell to address other pressing needs the team has?

There have been rumors the Flyers have had prolonged talks with EDM and WPG off and on for months. Ive got to imagine more moves with be coming this season.
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Nov 1 @ 2:41 PM ET
Pre-lockout.. Schenn would absolutely fit the bill as a prospective top pair shutdown guy. But those days are lonngg gone.
- jak521



This is true. The days of Daneyko, Foote and Hatcher are over... rule-changes took the stay-at-home defender's ability to dominate in their own zone away from them.
twotoekenn
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: perkasie, PA
Joined: 12.16.2009

Nov 1 @ 2:41 PM ET
If that's the case, I'm not sure a sucker punch is a good way to prove him wrong.
- Scoob


https://www.google.com/ur...g2=icVa-6tef0ixZPiuqR_8PA
BulliesPhan87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the lone wolf of hockeybuzz
Joined: 07.31.2009

Nov 1 @ 2:41 PM ET
Laviolette's system required the same amount of skating, if not more. Especially for defenseman. What prevented him from skating in the off season?
- MJL

All the ice melted, duh.
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