I can live with the drop-off in Timonen's defensive play. He's still very intelligent. I just don't get how he went from last year's offensive mini-dynamo to looking so bad/hesitant out there. Last year he'd lost a step, but his offense largely offset it. It definitely has to do with the rest of the team, but he's at this stage where just playing his best defense isn't good enough on its own without supplementing it offensively.

Yes, the biggest problem has far and away been the ability to score goals, and the biggest strength of the team has been the goalie...but we'd be (frank)ed without the shot blocking turnover factory
- Jsaquella

No correlation to shot blocking and a good goalie? Wasn't that one of the anti-Lundqvist/Brodeur arguments?

No, it's an art, but it's not as vital as having somebody who can move the puck right now. It's a bit overrated, IMO.

I haven't played in a few years and I still have aches and pains from shots I took off a shin or foot the wrong way.
- Jsaquella

I am assuming you want kimmos 0 points vs Grossmans 4...with an equal 12 penalty minutes...that becomes a wash in number, but the type is what is painfully obvious...Hitting by grossman, holding and grabbing by Kimmo...

No correlation to shot blocking and a good goalie? Wasn't that one of the anti-Lundqvist/Brodeur arguments?
- jmatchett383

There can be a correlation, but again, I don't feel Grossmann's shot blocking is worth the bad turnovers and lack of mobility.

There can be a correlation, but again, I don't feel Grossmann's shot blocking is worth the bad turnovers and lack of mobility.
- Jsaquella

With better puck movement and mobility on the back end, the Flyers would theoretically spend less time in their zone, reducing the need to block so many shots.

There can be a correlation, but again, I don't feel Grossmann's shot blocking is worth the bad turnovers and lack of mobility.
- Jsaquella

Fair enough. I just take it (a tiny bit) personally as a primarily defensive defenseman when I played. I always figured my job, first and foremost, was to stop the other team from getting an offensive chance. I preferred to take the man and leave the puck for the backchecking forward. Not that it's always available.

With better puck movement and mobility on the back end, the Flyers would theoretically spend less time in their zone, reducing the need to block so many shots.
- BulliesPhan87

True, but sadly, that's not an option right now, so they need to use what they've got.

I am assuming you want kimmos 0 points vs Grossmans 4...with an equal 12 penalty minutes...that becomes a wash in number, but the type is what is painfully obvious...Hitting by grossman, holding and grabbing by Kimmo...
- JW98FlyerFan

Again, the biggest issue the Flyers face on defense is moving the puck up the ice. Grossmann is less adept at it than Timonen. Both have warts and neither has played especially well...Grossmann's shot totals may well be inflated due to his being a poor possession player, which hurts the offensive output.

I'm not defending Timonen. I think he's been horrible. But I don't feel Grossmann has been some stalwart that they can't do without, either.

Good idea.... hopefully for his and Flyers sake, it won't be a viable blog topic come Wed (AKA, breakout game tomorrow). Right now, it certainly is.
- bmeltzer

He's partying too hard.
Out all over the city with Hartsy every night.

C'mon people. Isn't it obvious?

I understand as a young man with a ton of money and the city by the balls it's probably very hard to reign yourself in. But if you bring us a cup you'll own the city FOREVER!!!! Think long term dummies, and in the mean time remember how much fun your 'job' is.

Tired of this.

Fair enough. I just take it (a tiny bit) personally as a primarily defensive defenseman when I played. I always figured my job, first and foremost, was to stop the other team from getting an offensive chance. I preferred to take the man and leave the puck for the backchecking forward. Not that it's always available.
- jmatchett383

Hell, I was strictly a defensive defenseman, so I know where you're coming from.

I just don't think Grossmann has played especially well. he's had good games, but I feel they have a bigger need for Kimmo's puck skills.

He's partying too hard.
Out all over the city with Hartsy every night.

C'mon people. Isn't it obvious?

I understand as a young man with a ton of money and the city by the balls it's probably very hard to reign yourself in. But if you bring us a cup you'll own the city FOREVER!!!! Think long term dummies, and in the mean time remember how much fun your 'job' is.

Tired of this.
- Ferrarimn7

Gotta restart the Olde City Crew.

With better puck movement and mobility on the back end, the Flyers would theoretically spend less time in their zone, reducing the need to block so many shots.
- BulliesPhan87

Yeah, that was the prevailing wisdom this past summer... too bad they re-signed Kimmo and went out and invested heavily in Mark Streit, instead of considering guys who could actually skate AND move the puck.

With better puck movement and mobility on the back end, the Flyers would theoretically spend less time in their zone, reducing the need to block so many shots.
- BulliesPhan87

That's very true...although I don't think they have that no matter who they dress.

Hell, I was strictly a defensive defenseman, so I know where you're coming from.

I just don't think Grossmann has played especially well. he's had good games, but I feel they have a bigger need for Kimmo's puck skills.
- Jsaquella

I'd prefer them both over Schenn, Meszaros, and Gill. It's not like they have a very deep pool to pick from.

Let's just agre that Eric Lindros wore #88 and call it a day.

True, but sadly, that's not an option right now, so they need to use what they've got.
- jmatchett383

Sorry, just backread and saw we're talking about scratches, thought it was trade talk. I still tend to think Kimmo's toolbox is more vital than Grossmann's, even if he's not putting the much needed offensive tools to work effectively.

I'd prefer them both over Schenn, Meszaros, and Gill. It's not like they have a very deep pool to pick from.

Let's just agre that Eric Lindros wore #88 and call it a day.
- jmatchett383

I'd just rather they play the kid that they invested so much in acquiring. We know what Grossmann is. Schenn might end up being worse or better...rather find that out.

There can be a correlation, but again, I don't feel Grossmann's shot blocking is worth the bad turnovers and lack of mobility.
- Jsaquella

Facts...PLEASE FACTS...kimmo has 12 T/Os and Grossman has 7...and there are a ton in between them...Kimmo is horrible this year...

Yeah, that was the prevailing wisdom this past summer... too bad they re-signed Kimmo and went out and invested heavily in Mark Streit, instead of considering guys who could actually skate AND move the puck.
- Tomahawk

Liles is still available!

If you call in the next 30 minutes, the Leafs will include Carter Ashton - a $40 value!

I'd just rather they play the kid that they invested so much in acquiring. We know what Grossmann is. Schenn might end up being worse or better...rather find that out.
- Jsaquella

So what's your proposed top-6?

Canucks goaltender Roberto Luongo (@strombone1) on Twitter on Friday night: “Just an FYI. If Ray Emery ever decides to skate down the ice and try to fight me, I’m getting the [bleep] out of dodge!!!”

Yeah, that was the prevailing wisdom this past summer... too bad they re-signed Kimmo and went out and invested heavily in Mark Streit, instead of considering guys who could actually skate AND move the puck.
- Tomahawk

Well, it's not as simple as walking down to the defenseman store and paying sticker price for a young, mobile blueliner. If a fair deal wasn't available, you can't really fault them for not just taking whatever's available.

Because they did, and that's how we got Mark Streit.

Facts...PLEASE FACTS...kimmo has 12 T/Os and Grossman has 7...and there are a ton in between them...Kimmo is horrible this year...
- JW98FlyerFan

He is. Not arguing that. But he's still a better possession player than Grossmann.

Facts...PLEASE FACTS...kimmo has 12 T/Os and Grossman has 7...and there are a ton in between them...Kimmo is horrible this year...
- JW98FlyerFan

Turovers are not facts, at least not reliable ones. Grossmann had 3 alone in the NJ game and was given 0. Turnovers, takeaways, hits, shot blocks, etc. are all real-time facts and change from arena to arena and day to day.

Well, it's not as simple as walking down to the defenseman store and paying sticker price for a young, mobile blueliner. If a fair deal wasn't available, you can't really fault them for not just taking whatever's available.

Because they did, and that's how we got Mark Streit.
- BulliesPhan87

And Kurtis Foster.

So what's your proposed top-6?
- jmatchett383

I'd probably go with

Coburn-Streit
Timonen-Schenn
Grossmann/Mesz-Gustafsson

But basically, I want Schenn & Gustafsson to play. If that means Grossmann and Timonen sit, I'm fine with that.