I've never said he was the sole reason, I did say he is one of the biggest reasons. I said if he wasn't doing so bad we probably still wouldn't be in a playoff position with the way we've been defensively, but we would more than likely be fighting for a spot.
- SpoiledByOil

I completely agree with you. I think most people here do.

I don't think this past game was his fault, and I think you're being extra hard on any goal he's let in over the past month or so because of how poorly he started.

That's all.

Hey you should stop saying .913 You did the calculation wrong.

in those 8 games:

(24 + 14 + 33 + 34 + 23 + 29 + 35 + 37 saves = 229) / (25 + 14 + 35 + 24 + 32 + 37 + 40 shots = 243) = .942 save percentage

In fact, even if you added up the "save percentages" for each game and divided by 8, you'd get .947. How did you get .913?
- Morris

Just about to say

So basically what everyone is trying to say is we legitimately have thee worst defensive team in the entire league. Nothing to do with goaltending?
- SpoiledByOil

We do have the worse defense in the league though. Dubnyk has been an issue as well, but lets not sugar coat this defense.

Also worth mentioning that we don't have the best forwards with what EA sports would call defensive awareness.

Hey you should stop saying .913 You did the calculation wrong.

in those 8 games:

(24 + 14 + 33 + 34 + 23 + 29 + 35 + 37 saves = 229) / (25 + 14 + 35 + 24 + 32 + 37 + 40 shots = 243) = .942 save percentage

In fact, even if you added up the "save percentages" for each game and divided by 8, you'd get .947. How did you get .913?
- Morris

you're right, my apologies. But that makes his other games even more pathetic, you start 18 games, and in 7 you have a .942 save % and your total for the year is still .891? Consistency is the biggest issue with NHL goalies, the more consistent goalies have good NHL careers, the ones who can't stay consistent have no place in the NHL, if you can have a .942 in 7 out of 18 games and still have a season total of .891, you're not consistent enough to play in the league.

you're right, my apologies. But that makes his other games even more pathetic, you start 18 games, and in 7 you have a .942 save % and your total for the year is still .891? Consistency is the biggest issue with NHL goalies, the more consistent goalies have good NHL careers, the ones who can't stay consistent have no place in the NHL, if you can have a .942 in 7 out of 18 games and still have a season total of .891, you're not consistent enough to play in the league.
- SpoiledByOil

One last time:

All goalies have sub-par years. Look at Quick last year when he started the first 10 or so game with a sub .900 sv % and was allowing around 3.00 GAA/game. Goalies have bad starts, but for the most part, they'll bounce back. Dubnyk's bad start was just accentuated by:

1.) New system stuggles
2.) Young team that can't figure out defense
3.) New pad sizes
4.) Increased expectations

Now he's over those things and seems to have turned a corner of late.

Alright?

We do have the worse defense in the league though. Dubnyk has been an issue as well, but lets not sugar coat this defense.
- Lahey

Really? then why is there 13 other teams that are averaging more shots against per game than the Oilers?

One last time:


Alright?
- MaximumBone

It still remains to be seen if he's over it, I don't think he is. He played good when we signed Bryz for a few games, will he stay consistent? I highly doubt it.

It still remains to be seen if he's over it, I don't think he is. He played good when we signed Bryz for a few games, will he stay consistent? I highly doubt it.
- SpoiledByOil

Then we'll wait and see.

Quick survey (i'll start):


1) Do you think Dubnyk isn't one of the major reasons we're once again in the basement?
Of course he is. His start to the season was brutal

2) Do you think Dubnyk has played well at any stretch during the year?
Yes, of course he has. Rarely in the first month, and more often since.

3) Do you feel Dubnyk is the main person to blame on every Oilers goal?
Nope. Sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't. Sometimes it's a just good goal that could have had a highlight reel defense, but didn't get one.

4) Is Dubnyk the main reason we're so far back?
I think there's an argument that the team didn't play confident when they had to worry about Dubnyk. But in many respects, it's a team effort. Funny how everyone's forgotten Yakupov and Justin's sophomore slumps based on improved play over a three game stretch, but Dubnyk doesn't get that same luxury. We've had major growing pains this year that have struck everyone from the Goaltenders to Taylor Hall to 14 year veteran Andrew Ference

5) Would the Oilers be better off in the standings with any other goalie?
Let's all spend time playing the What If? game. I think anyone who watches hockey sees that comparing save percentages doesn't give you a good idea about what a player can do in another system. Else Bryzgalov would be a Philly starter, not an Edmonton backup.

Really? then why is there 13 other teams that are averaging more shots against per game than the Oilers?
- SpoiledByOil

So using that stat we have a better defense than NSH?

Really? then why is there 13 other teams that are averaging more shots against per game than the Oilers?
- SpoiledByOil

If people have qualms with Corsi, they certainly should with Raw shot totals.

Shot distance, quality of chances, etc.

you're right, my apologies. But that makes his other games even more pathetic, you start 18 games, and in 7 you have a .942 save % and your total for the year is still .891? Consistency is the biggest issue with NHL goalies, the more consistent goalies have good NHL careers, the ones who can't stay consistent have no place in the NHL, if you can have a .942 in 7 out of 18 games and still have a season total of .891, you're not consistent enough to play in the league.
- SpoiledByOil

Consistency is a problem for him, but it's worth noting that 5 of those 8 came in the last 6 starts for him. That might suggest he's turning a corner.

So using that stat we have a better defense than NSH?
- Lahey

Sorry, we're actually tied with NSH not better, so only less than 12 teams. They have Weber who is obviously better than anyone we have, but they have a 19 year old kid averaging 23:26 minutes a game, I think that says a lot about the rest of their defense.

5) Would the Oilers be better off in the standings with any other goalie?
Let's all spend time playing the What If? game. I think anyone who watches hockey sees that comparing save percentages doesn't give you a good idea about what a player can do in another system. Else Bryzgalov would be a Philly starter, not an Edmonton backup.
- Morris

I agree with most of it, so I'll take about the one I'm on edge with.

If Dubnyk wasn't so bad to start the year I think this team is a lot better. By the time he came around the rest of the team was trying to hard to play a game that they aren't comfortable with. It's hard to blame Dubnyk for the mental issues that ended up plaguing the rest of the team, but the fact is if he was playing to his average that was .910ish we would've never seen the players lose the faith.

If people have qualms with Corsi, they certainly should with Raw shot totals.

Shot distance, quality of chances, etc.
- Morris

Well when he wants to come out and say the Oilers definitely have thee worst defense in the league, that's a stat I'm going to quote, it speaks volumes for defensively play. Last year we had the most shots against per game but decent goaltending, and what happened? We were actually fighting for a spot until we completely fell apart. This year there are 12 teams that have more shots against per game and we're 2nd last. something doesn't add up.

Sorry, we're actually tied with NSH not better, so only less than 12 teams. They have Weber who is obviously better than anyone we have, but they have a 19 year old kid averaging 23:26 minutes a game, I think that says a lot about the rest of their defense.
- SpoiledByOil

NHL.com has us at 29.9 and them at 30.

As for a 19 year old playing that much Brodin did it last year so age really is only a number. They have a similar poop show defense that we have, but add Weber and they have a better defense.

What's worse is if you use shots NJ has the best defense in the league,

Well when he wants to come out and say the Oilers definitely have thee worst defense in the league, that's a stat I'm going to quote, it speaks volumes for defensively play. Last year we had the most shots against per game but decent goaltending, and what happened? We were actually fighting for a spot until we completely fell apart. This year there are 12 teams that have more shots against per game and we're 2nd last. something doesn't add up.
- SpoiledByOil

Maybe not the worse, but damn near close.

NHL.com has us at 29.9 and them at 30.

As for a 19 year old playing that much Brodin did it last year so age really is only a number. They have a similar poop show defense that we have, but add Weber and they have a better defense.

What's worse is if you use shots NJ has the best defense in the league,
- Lahey

NJ has great shutdown defensemen, they don't have the best D because they don't have anyone who can chip in offensively.

Hey, new guy here! I wanna be first one day!
- HughJasscok

Welcum Huge Ass Cock

We do have the worse defense in the league though. Dubnyk has been an issue as well, but lets not sugar coat this defense.

Also worth mentioning that we don't have the best forwards with what EA sports would call defensive awareness.
- Lahey

This

We're nowhere close to being a playoff team.

NJ has great shutdown defensemen, they don't have the best D because they don't have anyone who can chip in offensively.
- SpoiledByOil

Doesn't matter you used SA as what counts

NJ has great shutdown defensemen, they don't have the best D because they don't have anyone who can chip in offensively.
- SpoiledByOil

I think it's more because the system DeBoer utilizes focuses on the forwards providing a lot of support to the defense(hence why they don't score much). I mean, I'd hardly call Volchenkov, Salvador, or Greene "great" shutdown Dmen.

I think it's more because the system DeBoer utilizes focuses on the forwards providing a lot of support to the defense(hence why they don't score much). I mean, I'd hardly call Volchenkov, Salvador, or Greene "great" shutdown Dmen.
- MaximumBone

Salvador and Greene aren't to shabby, Volchenkov just sucks.

SA is bad as a "pure metric" of defensive skill. Corsi and Fenwick are slightly better. Corsi/FenClose + analysis of shot distance (not simply how close the shots are, but also how many point shots we let through and the like) + occurrence of defensive breakdowns would be better.

We may allow fewer shots, but we allow among the most 'quality' chances and we make among the most mistakes.

On paper our forwards are one of the worst defensive crops in the league too, if not far and away the worst.

Doesn't matter you used SA as what counts
- Lahey

Yea because we were talking about defense in our own zone not offensively. What's your point?