Not to be a big downer, but if the team is looking to give up any assets I rather they try to go for somebody with a bit more upside.

A better tier than say Kulikov.

Edler or Yandle.
- flyer_nutter

Kulikov has upside. I think you mean you want someone that's more of a sure thing.

Grossmann and LSchenn, to start. Timonen is slow. Mezaros and Streit aren't slow, but aren't really fast enough, either. Coburn and Gustafsson are our only real fast Dmen, and we've been scratching Gus.
- JAKEw1234

Grossmann and Schenn aren't slow for their size...they're physical defensemen and not really supposed to be speedsters. I rarely see Grossmann get beat back and I've seen him win races against opposing forwards for icing and or to a loose puck. Not saying the guy never gets turned around (almost every d man does now and then), but he's not slow. I can show you video evidence if you wish. Same for Schenn. Timonen has certainly lost a step, yes...he looked terrible early in the season but has more or less returned to form to the point that his slowing speed isn't as much of an issue. Coburn's speed is well known attribute, Gusty has wheels. Streit and Mez have average NHL speed...it all adds up to a typical NHL D corps. What teams have speedsters up and down their top 6?

So does Laughton and a mid round pick get it done?
- JAKEw1234

Based on what Detroit supposedly offered last season, figure Laughton & Hagg

Based on what Detroit supposedly offered last season, figure Laughton & Hagg
- Jsaquella

Grossmann and Schenn aren't slow for their size...they're physical defensemen and not really supposed to be speedsters. I rarely see Grossmann get beat back and I've seen him win races against opposing forwards for icing and or to a loose puck. Not saying the guy never gets turned around (almost every d man does now and then), but he's not slow. I can show you video evidence if you wish. Same for Schenn. Timonen has certainly lost a step, yes...he looked terrible early in the season but has more or less returned to form to the point that his slowing speed isn't as much of an issue. Coburn's speed is well known attribute, Gusty has wheels. Streit and Mez have average NHL speed...it all adds up to a typical NHL D corps. What teams have speedsters up and down their top 6?
- exlund

I feel like we're watching different Flyers games

Based on what Detroit supposedly offered last season, figure Laughton & Hagg
- Jsaquella

In other words don't do it.

In other words don't do it.
- ob18

Have you gotten a chance to watch any of Hagg this year?

Grossmann and Schenn aren't slow for their size...they're physical defensemen and not really supposed to be speedsters. I rarely see Grossmann get beat back and I've seen him win races against opposing forwards for icing and or to a loose puck. Not saying the guy never gets turned around (almost every d man does now and then), but he's not slow. I can show you video evidence if you wish. Same for Schenn. Timonen has certainly lost a step, yes...he looked terrible early in the season but has more or less returned to form to the point that his slowing speed isn't as much of an issue. Coburn's speed is well known attribute, Gusty has wheels. Streit and Mez have average NHL speed...it all adds up to a typical NHL D corps. What teams have speedsters up and down their top 6?
- exlund

I'd love it if we did. Obviously no one can have a totally speedy corp, but if just Timonen and Streit were more speedy I feel we'd be a considerably more dangerous D corp. There's a reason coaches (like Nashville's) feel that they can take advantage of our poor speed.

Based on what Detroit supposedly offered last season, figure Laughton & Hagg
- Jsaquella

Well in that case steer clear. For all we know Hagg will be better than Kulikov in the long run.

Have you gotten a chance to watch any of Hagg this year?
- PhillySportsGuy

No, Bill has for at least a few games.

Grossmann and Schenn aren't slow for their size...they're physical defensemen and not really supposed to be speedsters. I rarely see Grossmann get beat back and I've seen him win races against opposing forwards for icing and or to a loose puck. Not saying the guy never gets turned around (almost every d man does now and then), but he's not slow. I can show you video evidence if you wish. Same for Schenn. Timonen has certainly lost a step, yes...he looked terrible early in the season but has more or less returned to form to the point that his slowing speed isn't as much of an issue. Coburn's speed is well known attribute, Gusty has wheels. Streit and Mez have average NHL speed...it all adds up to a typical NHL D corps. What teams have speedsters up and down their top 6?
- exlund

Grossmann & Schenn aren;t slow for their size, but they are below average in terms of NHL players. The biggest issue is still consistency. I've seen Grossmann make a nice outlet pass, same with Schenn. I have also seen both make horrid decision with the puck and have them end up in the back of the Flyers' net.

The lack of mobility combined with puck decision making also has led to an inability to break a hard forecheck against several different opponents.

I don't disagree that the Flyers defense isn't as bad as it gets labeled. But it isn't especially fast and it's not especially good with the puck.

Well in that case steer clear. For all we know Hagg will be better than Kulikov in the long run.
- JAKEw1234

Andfor all we know Hagg could be the next Nolan Baumgartner.

I'd probably lean away from doing that type of deal, but more from a fear of not maximizing Laughton than Hagg.

Andfor all we know Hagg could be the next Nolan Baumgartner.

I'd probably lean away from doing that type of deal, but more from a fear of not maximizing Laughton than Hagg.
- Jsaquella

I feel like Hagg is such a wild card. I haven't heard much about him other than the fact that he wants to stay in SHL for two years.

I feel like Hagg is such a wild card. I haven't heard much about him other than the fact that he wants to stay in SHL for two years.
- PhillySportsGuy

As Butsy just tweeted me, Bob McKenzie says that the KHL is looming for Kulikov, if he doesn't get the $$ and term he wants.

He probably wants to be paid very well, on top of the assets that you'd have to move to land him.

Grossmann is slow and not a good puck mover. (great shot blocker and great defensively
- youarewrong

I disagree. Please show examples. I can show you video examples of his good skating (for his size). I can show you Grossmann beating opposing forwards back to loose pucks/icings. I can show you Grossmann making good decisive puck moving plays over and over.

Meszaros is slow and not a good puck mover. (used to have a great shot and some speed before injury))
- youarewrong

Mez's wheels have been impacted but he's not a sloth out there...he sure showed some good mobility in pressing down low and making a spin-o-rama on that sick dish to Couturier the other night. He's not that slow and can move the puck...but he's a player that has to re-establish his game and some consistency, coming off those injuries, so he's not really a dependable guy right now...but he's not devoid of puck moving skill or scoring ability...he's gone soon anyway.

Schenn is slow and not a good puck mover. (Great hitter and can be good defensively0
- youarewrong

Schenn is probably among the slower D men that we have but I have seen him display another gear when he's had to do so, so I'm not sure it's a big negative for the still developing player. He can make good, basic puck moving plays and has put up 20+ points when given bigger minutes.

Timonen is slow and is pass is declining.

- youarewrong

I agree...I was really worried earlier when he looked awful...but he's been looking better and can usually make the right play...he's gone soon anyway.

Streit is slow but his passing is still good.

- youarewrong

I don't think he's slow...he's not a speedy guy but can skate well enough to make plays against most guys...he's made some nice passes but I think he's been surprisingly bad with the puck on his stick...I look for better things from him as he acclimates.

Coburn is fast for his size, but average when compaired to most players and his passing isnt great.
- youarewrong

I disagree here...I think Coburn is probably in the upper echelon of speed for NHL players of his size. When he's confident and has his game going he's a decent outlet passer and also skates the puck out of the zone and even into the O zone with effectiveness. You haven't see him do this?

Gusteffsson is fast, but is prone to rookie turnovers and being out of position.

- youarewrong

Yeah, I mean with an inexperienced player that's what you typcially are going to get...but he is speedy and does make some good puck moving plays when he's out there.

They are all good-decent defensman, but as a unit they just dont work.
- youarewrong

But the potential is there to make something out of some of what's here... let nature take it's course...Timonen and Mez will be gone and the mix will change. No need to reach to do something before then imo.

Grossmann & Schenn aren;t slow for their size, but they are below average in terms of NHL players. The biggest issue is still consistency. I've seen Grossmann make a nice outlet pass, same with Schenn. I have also seen both make horrid decision with the puck and have them end up in the back of the Flyers' net.

The lack of mobility combined with puck decision making also has led to an inability to break a hard forecheck against several different opponents.

I don't disagree that the Flyers defense isn't as bad as it gets labeled. But it isn't especially fast and it's not especially good with the puck.
- Jsaquella

These guys make the right play most of the time but people only want to focus on the mistakes and label them as slow/immobile and not good puck movers..and some even long for the days of Matt Carle.

How many times did we see Matt Carle make horrid decisions or just plain old gaffes deep in the Flyers zone or get beat wide by speedy forwards? Did they call him slow or not a good puck mover?

These guys make the right play most of the time but people only want to focus on the mistakes and label them as slow/immobile and not good puck movers..and some even long for the days of Matt Carle.

How many times did we see Matt Carle make horrid decisions of just plain old gaffes deep in the Flyers zone or get beat wide by speedy forwards? Did they call him slow or not a good puck mover?
- exlund

Carle would be our best all around defenseman right now.

These guys make the right play most of the time but people only want to focus on the mistakes and label them as slow/immobile and not good puck movers..and some even long for the days of Matt Carle.

How many times did we see Matt Carle make horrid decisions of just plain old gaffes deep in the Flyers zone or get beat wide by speedy forwards? Did they call him slow or not a good puck mover?
- exlund

Because the mistakes tend to cost them games.

They are fairly slow and not especially good puck movers. I know that they are capable of making an outlet pass, and that there is video representations of that on the internet. Hell, there's video of Luke Schenn going coast to coast as a Leaf and scoring a goal. But that's not the norm.
and puck carrying ability.

Unfortunately the norm against teams like Minnesota and New Jersey is what happened last night, with the Flyers getting hemmed in their own end, unable to counter the pressing forecheck, even with the forwards back helping. Other coaches have noted that the Flyers lack of speed on the back end is a major consideration for them when game planning.

From http://www.tennessean.com...131130/SPORTS02/311300090

“As a group, I thought we defended really well,” Predators coach Barry Trotz said. “We played our game. We tried to get pucks behind their defense all night. We thought we could take advantage of some of their foot speed back there, or lack thereof. I thought we did a pretty good job of that.”

Because the mistakes tend to cost them games.

They are fairly slow and not especially good puck movers. I know that they are capable of making an outlet pass, and that there is video representations of that on the internet. Hell, there's video of Luke Schenn going coast to coast as a Leaf and scoring a goal. But that's not the norm.
and puck carrying ability.

Unfortunately the norm against teams like Minnesota and New Jersey is what happened last night, with the Flyers getting hemmed in their own end, unable to counter the pressing forecheck, even with the forwards back helping. Other coaches have noted that the Flyers lack of speed on the back end is a major consideration for them when game planning.

From http://www.tennessean.com...131130/SPORTS02/311300090

“As a group, I thought we defended really well,” Predators coach Barry Trotz said. “We played our game. We tried to get pucks behind their defense all night. We thought we could take advantage of some of their foot speed back there, or lack thereof. I thought we did a pretty good job of that.”
- Jsaquella

It's not even about the mistakes. Their breakouts consist of several passes to leave the zone. A good defenseman can make one pass or skate it out on their own. Flyers don't have the guy who can do that.

It's exhausting for a team to have to execute several passes to leave the zone every time.

These guys make the right play most of the time but people only want to focus on the mistakes and label them as slow/immobile and not good puck movers..and some even long for the days of Matt Carle.

How many times did we see Matt Carle make horrid decisions of just plain old gaffes deep in the Flyers zone or get beat wide by speedy forwards? Did they call him slow or not a good puck mover?
- exlund

I think their D needs an infusion of high end skill as much as speed
Grossmann has almost no offense in his game and both Schenn and Coburn rarely show any offensive creativity. Timonen has clearly lost a step and Mez was always more of a shooter rather than a playmaker. I had hoped for more from Streit, his inconsistency has been disappointing.

While a guy like Matt Carle could skate well, his decision making with the puck was often poor as was his D zone coverage. On the other hand, Pronger was only an average skater, but they badly miss his high end skill and creativity.

It's not even about the mistakes. Their breakouts consist of several passes to leave the zone. A good defenseman can make one pass or skate it out on their own. Flyers don't have the guy who can do that.

It's exhausting for a team to have to execute several passes to leave the zone every time.
- PhillySportsGuy

More than anything it also makes them a really boring team to watch

Linesman gets angry and takes down Shaw in the Chicago vs Dallas game. Took a few punches himself

This is just some random clips taken from one single game showing good solid skating and puck moving plays made by guys who supposedly aren't capable of doing so.

Schenn nails Dupuis into his own bench boards, then gets back in time to cover his man in the slot where he blocks a Pens shot from getting through and swiftly skates up and delivers a crisp outlet pass to Couturier to start the break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw41IoIIzRw

Schenn gathers the puck along the D zone boards, passes onto the tape of Timonen who passes back to Schenn who skates the puck up in transition, making a nice lead pass onto the tape of Couturier who enters the O zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5F6-eUjd2o

Timonen from behind the net, up to Schenn who skates a bit before making a slick lead pass up the ice to Voracek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bayVnf675c

Coby fights off the forechecking Crosby to gain control in the defensive zone, makes a cross ice pass to Grossman who makes a nice transition pass up to Fedotenko, sending him off into the offensive zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSEkqawEueA

Here Coby fights for a puck aong the defensive boards, Grossman comes in, gets the puck and curls around the slot before hitting G with a sweet pass that sends him off on the rush. They gain the zone and get to work, Grossman makes a nice pinch to keep it in along the far boards (25 sec of the vid). The guys set up and apply more pressure, with the Coburn moving the puck from the umbrella...the Pens get it out but Coburn skates back and makes a cross ice pass to Timonen who deftly enters back into the offensive zone, Lots of solid puck moving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXTsXZE_CYA

Grossman takes the puck off the faceoff win and moves it behind the net which he uses to pick the forechecker, he then skates it out with the puck confidently before making a solid lead pass to Giroux to key the breakout. Later in the sequence he helps out deep to keep the cycle going:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXyA_DWh5KM

I know it's from last year, but these guys pretty much make these kinds of plays every game, which shows they are certainly capable of them...but again, people seem to focus on the mistakes.

Wow. Yankees sign Elsbury

Can you give us your personal scouting report on him from what you know? All I know is he's considered a puck mover
- JAKEw1234

From what I've seen, he's a dead ringer for a young Danny Markov.