They don't have either. They don't have someone to skate it up ice or someone to make the stretch pass. Pronger couldn't skate it up ice thru people, but he could really make the two line pass.
- PhillySportsGuy

Its the same issue with forwards.

For as much heat as Giroux and Voracek get, they are the only real consistent threats to even carry the puck up the ice with any creativity. Maybe add Coots to the mix now that he is on a hot streak.

The fact is, that the majority of the team lacks real puck handling skills, and it shows most in their transition game. That's the thing, you can have forwards like Hartnell or Simmonds come back and support the D, but when they get the pass and puck on their stick they are really easy to defend against coming up through the neutral zone.

Its the same issue with forwards.

For as much heat as Giroux and Voracek get, they are the only real consistent threats to even carry the puck up the ice with any creativity. Maybe add Coots to the mix now that he is on a hot streak.

The fact is, that the majority of the team lacks real puck handling skills, and it shows most in their transition game. That's the thing, you can have forwards like Hartnell or Simmonds come back and support the D, but when they get the pass and puck on their stick they are really easy to defend against coming up through the neutral zone.
- flyer_nutter

I think guys like Vinny and Read have a little creativity. I just see the forwards having to help so much in the defensive zone, they can't really get out on breakouts as easily. By the time they get the puck, they need get thru 4 guys in the neutral zone

Giroux has not been playing ridiculously poor since he got his first goal. But he's not big enough or talented enough to turn straw into gold. Hartnell and Voracek have been far worse than their center this season.
- Feanor

That's what it pretty much comes down to. Hartnell is the most inconsistent guy on the team, next to maybe LSchenn. And Voracek is probably the most predicable guy on the team. Drive wide, cross ice pass. Drive wide, cross ice pass.Drive wide, cross ice pass. Most of his success comes from positioning himself on the backside of plays and waiting for a feed.

The top line needs more than one guy that can create plays and they flat out aren't getting that.

Floated on 590 the Fan... a 90 million cap ceiling in 2015.

How are we spending it?
Who's the first 20 million a year player?

I think guys like Vinny and Read have a little creativity. I just see the forwards having to help so much in the defensive zone, they can't really get out on breakouts as easily. By the time they get the puck, they need get thru 4 guys in the neutral zone
- PhillySportsGuy

They do, but with Vinny I think he said it best earlier in the year. Something along the lines of becoming a slightly different player, realising he cant rush up the ice like he used to.

With Read, again there is some speed and creativity, but Im not really surprised at what I am seeing out of the current group.

The best way I can think of it is that its too much "Clowe on the back end, and Clowe up front". Even Trotz said the other day that the Preds wanted o win the game by taking advantage of the Flyers lack of speed.

Heart, whatever else aside, I think the biggest issue with the current crew is the lack of speed which is really evident, and a real lack of players who can handle the puck. Most of the guys fall in the "below average" category of both of these characteristics.

It shows most in the d-core imo, and having them as a crew the highest paid in the NHL is laughable.

Which, is what makes the Morin pick questionable, and why a few of us questioned it at the time. The kid from most reports, will be a fairly one dimensional d-man. Defensive d-man.

Floated on 590 the Fan... a 90 million cap ceiling in 2015.

How are we spending it?
Who's the first 20 million a year player?
- mayorofangrytown

Really don't see how the smaller markets in the US, and some in Canada can keep up with that.

Yup, it's likely you'll have to pick which one you want, those that have all of those are hard to find & expensive to trade for & keep.
- ob18

As long as they set their sights outside of the usual suspects, I think they'll find that there are guys out there who would both fit the bill, and be semi-affordable to add.

Look at a guy like Dan Boyle... he's been one of the absolute best puck-moving dmen of the past decade or so... he went undrafted, and he was acquired by TB for a 5th-round pick when nobody even knew his name.

Torey Krug wasn't exactly a household name before the '13 PO's... before that, I'm sure he wasn't exactly an untouchable.

Kris Russell was just on waivers not too long ago, and now he's very productive and on CGY's top-pairing.

Those kinds of guys are out there, toiling outside of the spotlight, and probably pretty easy to acquire... if I were Homer, I'd be busy collecting Jared Spurgeons, Alec Martinez's, Mattias Ekholms, David Rundblads, Philip Larsens, Matt Irwins, and Mark Barberios -- forget Byfuglien and Shea Weber.

They do, but with Vinny I think he said it best earlier in the year. Something along the lines of becoming a slightly different player, realising he cant rush up the ice like he used to.

With Read, again there is some speed and creativity, but Im not really surprised at what I am seeing out of the current group.

The best way I can think of it is that its too much "Clowe on the back end, and Clowe up front". Even Trotz said the other day that the Preds wanted o win the game by taking advantage of the Flyers lack of speed.

Heart, whatever else aside, I think the biggest issue with the current crew is the lack of speed which is really evident, and a real lack of players who can handle the puck. Most of the guys fall in the "below average" category of both of these characteristics.

It shows most in the d-core imo, and having them as a crew the highest paid in the NHL is laughable.

Which, is what makes the Morin pick questionable, and why a few of us questioned it at the time. The kid from most reports, will be a fairly one dimensional d-man. Defensive d-man.
- flyer_nutter

Yup lack of speed, especially on D, is by far the Flyers biggest weakness. Replacing Kimmo and Mez with 2 guys with good wheels next season is a must. Now they just have to figure out who those guys are and how can they be acquired.

They do, but with Vinny I think he said it best earlier in the year. Something along the lines of becoming a slightly different player, realising he cant rush up the ice like he used to.

With Read, again there is some speed and creativity, but Im not really surprised at what I am seeing out of the current group.

The best way I can think of it is that its too much "Clowe on the back end, and Clowe up front". Even Trotz said the other day that the Preds wanted o win the game by taking advantage of the Flyers lack of speed.

Heart, whatever else aside, I think the biggest issue with the current crew is the lack of speed which is really evident, and a real lack of players who can handle the puck. Most of the guys fall in the "below average" category of both of these characteristics.

It shows most in the d-core imo, and having them as a crew the highest paid in the NHL is laughable.

Which, is what makes the Morin pick questionable, and why a few of us questioned it at the time. The kid from most reports, will be a fairly one dimensional d-man. Defensive d-man.
- flyer_nutter

I agree with you on the speed. This team moves like it's stuck in quick sand. Morin has mobility. He hasn't shown much in terms of offense. I think he will be a more physical Coburn.

They do, but with Vinny I think he said it best earlier in the year. Something along the lines of becoming a slightly different player, realising he cant rush up the ice like he used to.

With Read, again there is some speed and creativity, but Im not really surprised at what I am seeing out of the current group.

The best way I can think of it is that its too much "Clowe on the back end, and Clowe up front". Even Trotz said the other day that the Preds wanted o win the game by taking advantage of the Flyers lack of speed.

Heart, whatever else aside, I think the biggest issue with the current crew is the lack of speed which is really evident, and a real lack of players who can handle the puck. Most of the guys fall in the "below average" category of both of these characteristics.

It shows most in the d-core imo, and having them as a crew the highest paid in the NHL is laughable.
- flyer_nutter

I brought this up a few weeks ago and my take was essentially that they need to go out and get an above average skater back there. Doesn't need to be a Norris contender or anything but they need to get the backend moving quicker. That, coupled with a goaltender in Mason who can actually play the puck will help open up the rush.

The mix is so far off on the blueline. One of the big, slower guys really needs to get moved.

Yup lack of speed, especially on D, is by far the Flyers biggest weakness. Replacing Kimmo and Mez with 2 guys with good wheels next season is a must. Now they just have to figure out who those guys are and how can they be acquired.
- BiggE

The thing is though, player identification is key.

You can bring a guy like Gervais who can skate. Or say Leopold, or Liles.

I think the biggest thing is making sure players have good all-round games. Its the same with the forwards up front. We all know they need more speed/skill, but the solution isn't to bring in a guy like Zherdev or Semin.

The thing is though, player identification is key.

You can bring a guy like Gervais who can skate. Or say Leopold, or Liles.

I think the biggest thing is making sure players have good all-round games. Its the same with the forwards up front. We all know they need more speed/skill, but the solution isn't to bring in a guy like Zherdev or Semin.
- flyer_nutter

I hear he's seeking employment!

Yup lack of speed, especially on D, is by far the Flyers biggest weakness. Replacing Kimmo and Mez with 2 guys with good wheels next season is a must. Now they just have to figure out who those guys are and how can they be acquired.
- BiggE

I don't even care if a guy can skate fast... as long as he can think and make plays quickly. As a group, they are way too slow in the regard, and can easily be pressured into making bad plays or making stupid mistakes.

Floated on 590 the Fan... a 90 million cap ceiling in 2015.

How are we spending it?
Who's the first 20 million a year player?
- mayorofangrytown

Personally, I don't see the cap increasing that much for next year. The NHL isn't getting any money from the mega deal with Rogers until 15-16.

More realistically, I see a cap ceiling of around $68 million next year, $75-80 million the next.

But I'm no finacial expert.

I brought this up a few weeks ago and my take was essentially that they need to go out and get an above average skater back there. Doesn't need to be a Norris contender or anything but they need to get the backend moving quicker. That, coupled with a goaltender in Mason who can actually play the puck will help open up the rush.

The mix is so far off on the blueline. One of the big, slower guys really needs to get moved.
- hereticpride

Honestly I'd really like to see big changes there. Unfortunately you are stuck with Streit, so that is what it is.

I'd be in favour of starting out with:
?-Coburn
?-Grossmann
Streit-One of Lauridsen, Alt, or Guss

I don't even care if a guy can skate fast... as long as he can think and make plays quickly. As a group, they are way too slow in the regard, and can easily be pressured into making bad plays or making stupid mistakes.
- Tomahawk

I really want a guy who isn't horrific in his own end, good enough to be a top 4 that can actually transition the puck with it on his stick.

It would really help the overall balance of the team because a d-man can make all the quick passes he wants... If its going to the majority of the forward crew as constructed they wont be able to do poop with it anyway.

How many times do you watch NHL teams, and they have d-men who skate the puck up the ice, or are threats to hit the net. Not even saying score a goal. The Flyers don't have 1 d-man on the back end that can do that.

Honestly I'd really like to see big changes there. Unfortunately you are stuck with Streit, so that is what it is.

I'd be in favour of starting out with:
?-Coburn
?-Grossmann
Streit-One of Lauridsen, Alt, or Guss
- flyer_nutter

No one likes the length of the deal but I still kick the tires on Ehrhoff. I think he is a solid replacement to Kimmo.
I'm not familiar with a lot of the pending UFA D men but I have to imagine there is a speedy guy that can float around the 2nd and 3rd pair. I definitely give Alt a look as well.

Floated on 590 the Fan... a 90 million cap ceiling in 2015.

How are we spending it?
Who's the first 20 million a year player?
- mayorofangrytown

the problem with the cap going up is that salaries go up as well, and every RFA, UFA, and their agents know this as well. until the flyers break their habit of overpaying relative to the cap, they'll never have enough cap room to do the things they want to do.

I really want a guy who isn't horrific in his own end, good enough to be a top 4 that can actually transition the puck with it on his stick.

It would really help the overall balance of the team because a d-man can make all the quick passes he wants... If its going to the majority of the forward crew as constructed they wont be able to do poop with it anyway.

How many times do you watch NHL teams, and they have d-men who skate the puck up the ice, or are threats to hit the net. Not even saying score a goal. The Flyers don't have 1 d-man on the back end that can do that.
- flyer_nutter

We should have taken them out back and shot them all a long time ago!

Really don't see how the smaller markets in the US, and some in Canada can keep up with that.
- flyer_nutter

Me either but they signed off on it and that's where it's headed.

the problem with the cap going up is that salaries go up as well, and every RFA, UFA, and their agents know this as well. until the flyers break their habit of overpaying relative to the cap, they'll never have enough cap room to do the things they want to do.
- Doc_Sarcasm

They could have more than 20 million in cap space this off season.

I hate when people use this term unless it's average. Do you really think the Flyers D is the 15th best D in hockey at moving the puck? Just say it. They're below average or BAD
- PhillySportsGuy

NO, you mis read... I said some guys that are average at best... there are some guys that are horrible at best.... I wasnt taking about the team being average.

They could have more than 20 million in cap space this off season.
- mayorofangrytown

ok... mayorofoptimismtown, whatever you say.

No one likes the length of the deal but I still kick the tires on Ehrhoff. I think he is a solid replacement to Kimmo.
I'm not familiar with a lot of the pending UFA D men but I have to imagine there is a speedy guy that can float around the 2nd and 3rd pair. I definitely give Alt a look as well.
- hereticpride

The names aren't too impressive. Phaneuf leads the pack, and while he isn't a terrible player, you know that with the overpaid contract he will get he will essentially be the "go to guy" on the back end for years.

Do we really want Dion Phaneuf to be that player for the next while? Just because he is the best thing available doesn't mean he is the best thing going forward, or the smart choice.

The 2nd tier choices include Pitkanen, Girardi and Quincey. After that it gets real slim. I do believe that Vancouver may be looking to make changes if they miss the playoffs, so you may be able to bring in a guy like Edler. A deal for Gardiner or Rielly may also be possible.

Really don't see how the smaller markets in the US, and some in Canada can keep up with that.
- flyer_nutter

Too bad. Keep up or Bye-bye.