They'd have been much better off matching what Tampa paid carle. At least he would be effective.
- JoeRussomanno

I'd disagree with that, at least last year. He truly was a turnstile out there.
I'm not saying Stret's much better.

Well they don't seem to want the right players most of the time these days. I find it interesting that these players keep getting nmc/ntc's and within 2 years become huge targets for trade talk or end up disappointing.
- JoeRussomanno

Then the only option is to stop pursuing UFAs. If a UFA is going to want a NMC from you, and you don't want to hand one out because he may or may not work out, then you don't get UFAs.

I'd disagree with that, at least last year. He truly was a turnstile out there.
I'm not saying Stret's much better.
- jmatchett383

He's one of those guys that needs to be utilized right ... Not like say Grossman where you can set him and forget him as bill likes to say. Also he needs a good defensive partner. He was a good compliment to a real number 1 as we saw in 2010.

I'd disagree with that, at least last year. He truly was a turnstile out there.
I'm not saying Stret's much better.
- jmatchett383

The problem with Carle is that he needs to be paired with another good defenseman. He's not the type to elevate the game of another guy.

It would be difficult to find the perfect pairing with him on this team, but i'd still rather have him over Streit. Even with the overpayment.

He's one of those guys that needs to be utilized right ... Not like say Grossman where you can set him and forget him as bill likes to say. Also he needs a good defensive partner. He was a good compliment to a real number 1 as we saw in 2010.
- JoeRussomanno

Great minds think alike

Then the only option is to stop pursuing UFAs. If a UFA is going to want a NMC from you, and you don't want to hand one out because he may or may not work out, then you don't get UFAs.
- jmatchett383

No that's not the only option. Like I said they need to evaluate how they are pursuing these players because right now, they're free agent signings are barely a c in terms of grading.

No that's not the only option. Like I said they need to evaluate how they are pursuing these players because right now, they're free agent signings are barely a c in terms of grading.
- JoeRussomanno

Then we're talking about scouting. I was just talking about their past history of trading players right before NMCs kick in affecting their ability to sign any UFA, whether it's the right or wrong players.

Great minds think alike
- PhillySportsGuy

Another thing that goes unnoticed about carle is that shot of his although weak, is kinda like a change up pitch, cause I can think of an overtime goal in the finals where his off speed shot resulted in a juicy rebound. A shot doesn't always have to be hard if the goalie is screened or moving.

Then we're talking about scouting. I was just talking about their past history of trading players right before NMCs kick in affecting their ability to sign any UFA, whether it's the right or wrong players.
- jmatchett383

A mid 30's player shouldn't be getting big money longterm under a nmc in my opinion unless he's a real lights out guy. There aren't many of them. Lecavalier's contract for instance is gonna hurt them in two years. We already a quarter season in and he's missing time with back spasms.

Another thing that goes unnoticed about carle is that shot of his although weak, is kinda like a change up pitch, cause I can think of an overtime goal in the finals where his off speed shot resulted in a juicy rebound. A shot doesn't always have to be hard if the goalie is screened or moving.
- JoeRussomanno

A shot rarely needs to be hard. Look at this current group and you'll see how many shots get blocked. Carle was never a good shooter IMO, but he was a very steady player when paired with the right person.

I thought one underrated aspect of Pronger was his ability to get shots through. He rarely took the big wind-up.

Another thing that goes unnoticed about carle is that shot of his although weak, is kinda like a change up pitch, cause I can think of an overtime goal in the finals where his off speed shot resulted in a juicy rebound. A shot doesn't always have to be hard if the goalie is screened or moving.
- JoeRussomanno

Was it a rebound? I though it was a tip-in.

A shot rarely needs to be hard. Look at this current group and you'll see how many shots get blocked. Carle was never a good shooter IMO, but he was a very steady player when paired with the right person.

I thought one underrated aspect of Pronger was his ability to get shots through. He rarely took the big wind-up.
- PhillySportsGuy

Pronger was the best I have ever seen at that. The #1 best.

A mid 30's player shouldn't be getting big money longterm under a nmc in my opinion unless he's a real lights out guy. There aren't many of them. Lecavalier's contract for instance is gonna hurt them in two years. We already a quarter season in and he's missing time with back spasms.
- JoeRussomanno

Well, like, I said, if the players feel they need one from the Flyers, they only have themselves to blame.

Still, to my original question, do you think the Flyers past history of dealing players right before their NMCs kick in affects UFAs wanting one more so than from other teams?

A shot rarely needs to be hard. Look at this current group and you'll see how many shots get blocked. Carle was never a good shooter IMO, but he was a very steady player when paired with the right person.

I thought one underrated aspect of Pronger was his ability to get shots through. He rarely took the big wind-up.
- PhillySportsGuy

i agree with this so much. everyone wants to be a chara and weber blaster from the point. 90 percent of the time, that is such a harmful attitude. the shot is either high and wide, or takes so long to deliver that it is into a shinpad or a clogged lane. especially on the powerplay, the ability to just get the puck through from the point with a quick, well placed shot is infinitely more important. with traffic, you can get those dirty goals, and by making the PKers respect the shot it opens up passing lanes. at the very least, you just take a goalie cover for another offensive zone faceoff.

A mid 30's player shouldn't be getting big money longterm under a nmc in my opinion unless he's a real lights out guy. There aren't many of them. Lecavalier's contract for instance is gonna hurt them in two years. We already a quarter season in and he's missing time with back spasms.
- JoeRussomanno

i agree with this too, but its unfortunate because thats just what the market is anymore. you either run the risk of being on the hook for an extra year or a few million or so, or you will essentially miss out on virtually everyone. yeah lecavaliers contract in his last year or two will probably suck, but if you didnt give it someone else would have and then you wouldnt have gotten the first couple of good years

He's one of those guys that needs to be utilized right ... Not like say Grossman where you can set him and forget him as bill likes to say. Also he needs a good defensive partner. He was a good compliment to a real number 1 as we saw in 2010.
- JoeRussomanno

He had a penchant for sneaking down to the tops of the circles, or going back door and getting really primo scoring chances... another thing that people forget is that he blocked a hell of a lot of shots, too... 150+ per year.

i agree with this so much. everyone wants to be a chara and weber blaster from the point. 90 percent of the time, that is such a harmful attitude. the shot is either high and wide, or takes so long to deliver that it is into a shinpad or a clogged lane. especially on the powerplay, the ability to just get the puck through from the point with a quick, well placed shot is infinitely more important. with traffic, you can get those dirty goals, and by making the PKers respect the shot it opens up passing lanes. at the very least, you just take a goalie cover for another offensive zone faceoff.
- stayinthefnnet

If you watch Weber and Chara, they rarely take the big blast unless the seas have parted and it's them vs the goalie. Great shooters can also keep their heads up when they let a shot go. This allows them to see the traffic up until the moment they let the shot go.

Tyler! That's where you're at. That's a heckuva drive, Bill. Why don't you guys move to DFW? Anyways, I'll be at the game with the family. Not looking forward to those icy roads though. I'm glad the boys have been playing better lately. I would've hated to have seen them playing that early season hockey down here. Last game I saw in person was that BEAT DOWN in Tampa last year. Hope to see more moxie and "Flyer" hockey on Saturday.

If you watch Weber and Chara, they rarely take the big blast unless the seas have parted and it's them vs the goalie. Great shooters can also keep their heads up when they let a shot go. This allows them to see the traffic up until the moment they let the shot go.
- PhillySportsGuy

true. it wasnt so much an indictment of them as much as guys that try to emulate that when it really isnt in their best interest to do so. for all of letangs offensive flare, its no surprise that the pens powerplay clicks better when martin is running the point. and martin, improved or not, doesnt exactly invoke fear in defenders

true. it wasnt so much an indictment of them as much as guys that try to emulate that when it really isnt in their best interest to do so. for all of letangs offensive flare, its no surprise that the pens powerplay clicks better when martin is running the point. and martin, improved or not, doesnt exactly invoke fear in defenders
- stayinthefnnet

Timonen is the same way. He's run the point on the Flyers PP for years and has done so very well. He's older now and struggles a bit more, but in his prime he was great at getting shots through. His reads to keep the puck in are also incredible. But like you said, guys like Timonen don't evoke fear, but they are extremely effective.

That's...actually how I see him. I think he was taken first overall in a draft class which was weak with "superstar" players yet strong in good players. Were he taken in the 2013 draft, he would have had a hard time cracking the top 5, let alone top 3.
- jmatchett383

It is interesting to think about where he would go. But the fact as a Russian he goes 1st overall is telling of the talent he has. For example, Nichushkin is a beast and I will bet 10 years from now people will say he was if not the best player in the draft, but top 3, and yet he dropped to 10.

Timonen is the same way. He's run the point on the Flyers PP for years and has done so very well. He's older now and struggles a bit more, but in his prime he was great at getting shots through. His reads to keep the puck in are also incredible. But like you said, guys like Timonen don't evoke fear, but they are extremely effective.
- PhillySportsGuy

yeah timonen is a perfect example. he never wowed me with his shot, but his ability to read the play and see what was there was incredible. have a good screen in front, then a well placed simple shot can get it done. defender moved over to take away that option, then therefore something else must have opened up. boom get the puck there. there is talent in being able to excel in the simplicity that sounds like common sense, but often isnt. then that solid foundation allows for the skill guys on the powerplay to get the job done.

i cant gripe too much because the powerplay for the pens has been thriving, but it certainly hasnt been due to letang.

yeah timonen is a perfect example. he never wowed me with his shot, but his ability to read the play and see what was there was incredible. have a good screen in front, then a well placed simple shot can get it done. defender moved over to take away that option, then therefore something else must have opened up. boom get the puck there. there is talent in being able to excel in the simplicity that sounds like common sense, but often isnt. then that solid foundation allows for the skill guys on the powerplay to get the job done.

i cant gripe too much because the powerplay for the pens has been thriving, but it certainly hasnt been due to letang.
- stayinthefnnet

I think the Pens overwhelm teams with talent. They have multiple guys who routinely make passes right through the box. That's very difficult to defend. The Flyers have a much more structured PP that has worked well in the past. (Not this year).

I think the Pens overwhelm teams with talent. They have multiple guys who routinely make passes right through the box. That's very difficult to defend. The Flyers have a much more structured PP that has worked well in the past. (Not this year).
- PhillySportsGuy

it either works or it doesnt. i know that sounds like well duh, but i dont know how else to explain it. if you can find ways to neutralize the crazy passing, they wont score (and youll likely get quality shorthanded opportunities). if your goalie can weather an initial storm, frustration will likely boil over as well. like i said, i dont want to complain too much because it can literally be beautiful to watch when it works, but sometimes i just wish they would be content with simple plays.

neal is a godsend. the one guy not afraid to just fire away.

Pronger was the best I have ever seen at that. The #1 best.
- jmatchett383

Mark Howe was just as good, but he's about the only other I can think of in Flyers history