Finally some sense
- GOA88

Yeah, I think the Flyers D do a fair job in puck moving from the defensive zone...take Grossmann..the guy makes several good, basic puck moving plays per game but some have a perception of him as a slow plodding guy with no puck moving ability...or they think Coburn or Schenn have no puck moving capability...hogwash. Certainly Timonen, Streit, Gusty, Mez can do it too.

Every team is going to have those moments of various length during a game where the opposing forecheck has them hemmed in for a bit, the Flyers are no exception...doesn't mean the D corps is inept in moving the puck up. From what I see, the Flyers D men do a pretty good job of battling for pucks and then getting it up to a forward, but the forwards tend to have some difficulty at times in making plays to further advance the puck up the ice, through the neutral zone and and into the offensive zone.

The aforementioned notwishstanding, I think a good (young) offensive defenseman with the ability to carry and pass the puck as well as make plays and produce points would be a beneficial addition to the Flyers D corps. With Timonen and Mez likely finishing up their tenure as Flyers this season there should be an opportunity to add such a player to the mix.

For me, that's how I feel with the TML. I don't necessarily LIKE the team, but it's the pretentious fans I can't stand. Listening to them, you'd think the Maple Leafs have gone 82-0 every year since the merger, and that the TML have never committed a true penalty ever, and the refs try to screw them every game.
- jmatchett383

If we are talking about fan bases, there is no fan base more obnoxious then Montreal. They have the 3 keys to being the worst fan base.
1. Pretentious... They think they are the owners of the sport, and anyone that doesn't want to play for them, or doesn't speak French are evil.

2. The cheer... The have the most obnoxious cheers. From the "I think it a penality so let me "cheer" until I realize the Ref didnt call it, then star to boo". To the "ole" and "Na na na na."

3. The Horn... Any fan base that uses an air horn is obnoxious. How annoying is it to hear "Honk-Honk-Honk" every 30 seconds. Real fan bases dont need prompting by obnoxious drunk fans.

Timonen: 29 pts in 45 games
Streit: 27 Pts in 48 games and 5 pts in 6 games in the playoffs. He was on pace for over 10 goals and 40 pts in a full season.

If thats falling off then I need to slam a brick over my head a wake up FAST
- GOA88

How many were at even strength for both guys?

Just a random random... Talbot for Downie is going to turn out to be a big steal for homer

How many were at even strength for both guys?
- youarewrong

Does it matter? How many even strenght pts does Letang or Subban have? Pts are pts

Do you/did you expect him to be a premier puck-moving defenseman? I never ever did. He's a decent puck mover for the role he plays. If you expect him to be an offensive juggernaut, then you'll be let down. I expect him to be a good 3/4 defenseman who can skate well, play physical, and get the puck out of harm's way and to a forward. For the most part, he does those things admirably.
- jmatchett383

I'm not dumping on Coburn, but he cant be the only guy on this team that moves the puck, which he does moderately at best. If you read back, I posted the Flyers need to trade for a Daley or Goglioski and that using Coburn in a trade would be like an even swap. I'm not sure how this turned into I think Coburn should be Karlsson. My point is he ISNT Karlsson and the defense needs someone that can move the puck out of the zone.

Does it matter? How many even strenght pts does Letang or Subban have? Pts are pts
- GOA88

Yes it does matter. Because ok the PP you start in the offensive zone, and have more space for passing. Plus you pick up a lot of points from other players work. The Flyers dont need defenseman that can acculuminate points.... They need defenseman that can transition out of the defensive zone. Either by making the good passes, or my carrying the puck.

I absolutely despised those Leafs teams with Domi, Home Tough Guy Darcy, Billion Dollar Eddie, and the rest.

I never respected Domi after the Adam Burt incident, and Darcy Tucker only played tough with a home sweater on. My hatred for the The Penguins pales in comparison to those Leafs teams.
- MBFlyerfan

Darcy Tucker was a little poop going back to his Tampa days.

Can't believe that guy was held up as some sort of icon.

I absolutely despised those Leafs teams with Domi, Home Tough Guy Darcy, Billion Dollar Eddie, and the rest.

I never respected Domi after the Adam Burt incident, and Darcy Tucker only played tough with a home sweater on. My hatred for the The Penguins pales in comparison to those Leafs teams.
- MBFlyerfan

the leafs of the late 90s through 2004 were an unlikable bunch. especially domi and tucker.

Yes it does matter. Because ok the PP you start in the offensive zone, and have more space for passing. Plus you pick up a lot of points from other players work. The Flyers dont need defenseman that can acculuminate points.... They need defenseman that can transition out of the defensive zone. Either by making the good passes, or my carrying the puck.
- youarewrong

I guess you havent seen Timonen passing the puck up ice this season or Streit skating directly out of the zone consistently this season, as far as them not picking up assists on these plays I blame the forwards, they have been extremely ineffective until recently.

Just a random random... Talbot for Downie is going to turn out to be a big steal for homer
- SMS4016

would have been nice if they showed some (frank)ing patience with downie in the first place, but i agree. he's bringing a lot to the table and sparking that line to their current level of play.

the leafs of the late 90s through 2004 were an unlikable bunch. especially domi and tucker.
- hammarby31

When Domi destroyed Niedermayer with that elbow I kinda enjoyed it.

Does it matter? How many even strenght pts does Letang or Subban have? Pts are pts
- GOA88

Kimmo was still very good last year, no argument there.

By the PO's, Streit was getting less ice-time than every other Isles' defender at ES, including world-beaters like Brian Strait and Thomas Hickey. They were almost exclusively using him in offensive situations, so while it may seem like his points didn't decline terribly, his overall usefulness sure did.

Visnovsky came in and made him expendable to the Isles... and he can't even supplant a 38-39 year old Kimmo on the Flyers' top PP unit. What does that say about his level of play?

Like Bryz, he's just not as good as his name (and past stats) would seem to suggest.

Yeah, I think the Flyers D do a fair job in puck moving from the defensive zone...take Grossmann..the guy makes several good, basic puck moving plays per game but some have a perception of him as a slow plodding guy with no puck moving ability...or they think Coburn or Schenn have no puck moving capability...hogwash. Certainly Timonen, Streit, Gusty, Mez can do it too.

Every team is going to have those moments of various length during a game where the opposing forecheck has them hemmed in for a bit, the Flyers are no exception...doesn't mean the D corps is inept in moving the puck up. From what I see, the Flyers D men do a pretty good job of battling for pucks and then getting it up to a forward, but the forwards tend to have some difficulty at times in making plays to further advance the puck up the ice, through the neutral zone and and into the offensive zone.

The aforementioned notwishstanding, I think a good (young) offensive defenseman with the ability to carry and pass the puck as well as make plays and produce points would be a beneficial addition to the Flyers D corps. With Timonen and Mez likely finishing up their tenure as Flyers this season there should be an opportunity to add such a player to the mix.
- exlund

Refering to your first 2 paragraphs. Bill wrote the below 2 days ago. These 3 issues would be fixed by getting better puck moving and skating defenseman.

REASONS FOR FLYERS' SCORING WOES

1. Breakouts are often laborious.The Flyers are plagued by errant passing, especially from defensemen to forwards, and by forwards who become stationary rather than moving their feet. The team fails to clear its own zone too often under even moderate forechecking pressure and takes too many needless icings. Additionally, too many would-be rushes go offside or, worse, end up as turnovers between the bluelines and potential counterattacking chances for opponents.

2. Can't carry pucks in, can't dump in and retrieve. The Flyers often have trouble navigating the puck over the blueline. When they attempt to dump pucks behind the net, the opposing defense or goalie often gets to them first and the opposition breakouts are all too easy. It is the rare night when the Flyers string together multiple consecutive shifts of good forechecking pressure or even have more than a couple sustained cycling shifts to wear down the opposing team.

3. Too many perimeter shots, not enough rebounds. Even on nights where the Flyers generate a healthy number of total shots, the shot quality is often lacking. Opposing teams give up the perimeter and there are too many one-and-done rushes where there is no rebound opportunity or rebounds are easily steered to the corners and then cleared.

5. Shot attempts do not get through traffic. For all the talk about the number of Flyers shots from good shooting range that miss the net, an equal concern from my standpoint is the team's inability to get the puck to the net in the first place rather than having them blocked down by opposing teams.

4 of the 6 issues can be fixed by a defense with better passing and shooting skills. The forwards have to be better too, but IMO it starts with the defense.

Kimmo was still very good last year, no argument there.

By the PO's, Streit was getting less ice-time than every other Isles' defender at ES, including world-beaters like Brian Strait and Thomas Hickey. They were almost exclusively using him in offensive situations, so while it may seem like his points didn't decline terribly, his overall usefulness sure did.

Visnovsky came in and made him expendable to the Isles... and he can't even supplant a 38-39 year old Kimmo on the Flyers' top PP unit. What does that say about his level of play?

Like Bryz, he's just not as good as his name (and past stats) would seem to suggest.
- Tomahawk

I think Timonen has a lot of pride in that role and out of respect and out of acknowledgement of his abilities it's his to keep this season...I think the idea is that Streit will assume that role once Timo is gone.

I think Timonen has a lot of pride in that role and out of respect and out of acknowledgement of his abilities it's his to keep this season...I think the idea is that Streit will assume that role once Timo is gone.
- exlund

Streit was up on Unit 1 for a few games... results just weren't there.

4 of the 6 issues can be fixed by a defense with better passing and shooting skills. The forwards have to be better too, but IMO it starts with the defense.
- youarewrong

I'm not saying the Flyers couldn't improve in those areas, but you seem to be taking the stance that the D corps is completely incompetent in moving the puck, which I think is off the mark. Many of the issues Bill points out seem to be as much the responsibilty of the forwards as the D men.

When Domi destroyed Niedermayer with that elbow I kinda enjoyed it.
- PLindbergh31

i have to admit that i didn't like it, even though it was a devil. maybe because i didn't loathe neidermayer. if it were stevens, i'd probably have loved it.

Yeah, I think the Flyers D do a fair job in puck moving from the defensive zone...take Grossmann..the guy makes several good, basic puck moving plays per game but some have a perception of him as a slow plodding guy with no puck moving ability...or they think Coburn or Schenn have no puck moving capability...hogwash. Certainly Timonen, Streit, Gusty, Mez can do it too.

Every team is going to have those moments of various length during a game where the opposing forecheck has them hemmed in for a bit, the Flyers are no exception...doesn't mean the D corps is inept in moving the puck up. From what I see, the Flyers D men do a pretty good job of battling for pucks and then getting it up to a forward, but the forwards tend to have some difficulty at times in making plays to further advance the puck up the ice, through the neutral zone and and into the offensive zone.

The aforementioned notwishstanding, I think a good (young) offensive defenseman with the ability to carry and pass the puck as well as make plays and produce points would be a beneficial addition to the Flyers D corps. With Timonen and Mez likely finishing up their tenure as Flyers this season there should be an opportunity to add such a player to the mix.
- exlund

With the new system in place, you will often notice the forwards hanging back to receive a quick short pass from the D. Since puck moving is an issue with our current D, we see less attempts at long stretch passes.

In tandem with the in-depth look at the Stars in today's Flyers blog, I posted a Flyers "scouting report" (as I see it, at least) in today's just-posted Stars blog.

i have to admit that i didn't like it, even though it was a devil. maybe because i didn't loathe neidermayer. if it were stevens, i'd probably have loved it.
- hammarby31

Screw the Devils. Hate everything about them.

Flyers called off practice because of no power in the building... I guess there are no generators in Dallas.

I'm not saying the Flyers couldn't improve in those areas, but you seem to be taking the stance that the D corps is completely incompetent in moving the puck, which I think is off the mark. Many of the issues Bill points out seem to be as much the responsibilty of the forwards as the D men.
- exlund

In regards to the entire NHL (30 teams) where does the Flyers defensive unit rank in terms of offensive ability?

This, however, is very accurate. The Eagles aren't even a blip on the Cowboys screen compared to the Giants, Redskins, 49ers, and even the Packers.
- MBFlyerfan

Couldn't disagree more with this, especially living down here. Cowgirl fans hate Eagle giant, skins fans pretty equally. Also dislike steelers fans for having more titles. Only ones who don'thate Eaglesas much are those living in 1975.

With the new system in place, you will often notice the forwards hanging back to receive a quick short pass from the D. Since puck moving is an issue with our current D, we see less attempts at long stretch passes.
- Chris48

+1

Lecavalier already ruled out of game tomorrow. When does back spasms become a herniated disc?