Lecavalier already ruled out of game tomorrow. When does back spasms become a herniated disc?
- PLindbergh31

I had back spasms for years until I finally got an MRI and it revealed a herniated disc. It's the worst. You tweak it once and you're out of commission for at least a week.

I'm not dumping on Coburn, but he cant be the only guy on this team that moves the puck, which he does moderately at best. If you read back, I posted the Flyers need to trade for a Daley or Goglioski and that using Coburn in a trade would be like an even swap. I'm not sure how this turned into I think Coburn should be Karlsson. My point is he ISNT Karlsson and the defense needs someone that can move the puck out of the zone.
- youarewrong

I never said he should be THE GUY. You said he doesn't do an adequate job (which you've since improved to moderate). I'm saying, for the role he is in, he does a more than adequate job. He should never ever EVER be expected to be a premier puck-mover because that's not who he is. But for the player he is, he does a fine job. And if you trade him for a better puck-mover, then you will have guys like Schenn and Grossmann who will not be able to fill his void, and that will offset what you'd lose in Coburn (unless said player will play 40 minutes a game). My point is, you can't just have one puck-mover and solve the problem. Puck movement by the defense is a team trend, and Coburn is a very good guy for moving the puck, and losing him would create a pretty large hole on what is a fragile blue line as it is

I do not want GoGo for him at all; his offensive improvement over Coburn would not offset his defensive liabilities compared to Coburn's. Unless it's a trade to get a 5-tool defenseman, I do not want to move the player who's been the team's top defenseman this season. GoGo is a 1-tool defenseman.

Couldn't disagree more with this, especially living down here. Cowgirl fans hate Eagle giant, skins fans pretty equally. Also dislike steelers fans for having more titles. Only ones who don'thate Eaglesas much are those living in 1975.
- bgratch

I was referring to the teams.

I had back spasms for years until I finally got an MRI and it revealed a herniated disc. It's the worst. You tweak it once and you're out of commission for at least a week.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's already his third different injury in a quarter of a season.

Screw the Devils. Hate everything about them.
- PLindbergh31

Flyers called off practice because of no power in the building... I guess there are no generators in Dallas.
- PLindbergh31

that's weak. if they really cared they would just use the zamboni headlights like youngblood did at 5 in the morning.

I had back spasms for years until I finally got an MRI and it revealed a herniated disc. It's the worst. You tweak it once and you're out of commission for at least a week.
- PhillySportsGuy

Or you could "man up."

I do not want GoGo for him at all; his offensive improvement over Coburn would not offset his defensive liabilities compared to Coburn's. Unless it's a trade to get a 5-tool defenseman, I do not want to move the player who's been the team's top defenseman this season. GoGo is a 1-tool defenseman.
- jmatchett383

Goligoski and Streit on the same blueline would create a singularity of defensive suck...

Or you could "man up."
- jmatchett383

Or else, Bob Hartley would threaten you with "chocolate fumes".

Goligoski and Streit on the same blueline would create a singularity of defensive suck...
- Tomahawk

That's why I don't get how trading Coburn for a purely offensive player like GoGo makes any sense. No matter where you pair him on this team, there's a gaping hole. Coburn is actually a pretty damn good 4-tool player for what he's paid. I can't get why people think he's some inept, statuesque, bumbling fool out there. he does everything well, but nothing great. He's like a younger, bigger Rob Scuderi. As for Daley, I think they're a lot of the same player.

I guess you havent seen Timonen passing the puck up ice this season or Streit skating directly out of the zone consistently this season, as far as them not picking up assists on these plays I blame the forwards, they have been extremely ineffective until recently.
- GOA88

They dont do it consistantly or well enough for it to be an effect part of the Flyers game. I like Streit for what he is, a 2nd pairing guy that can help on the PP. I like Coburn for what he is, a 2nd pairing guy that is good defensively and marginal at the transition game. Timonen is over the hill, and is hurting the team as much as helping. So the point remains we dont have enough guys to help with the transition game out of the defensive zone.

Flyers called off practice because of no power in the building... I guess there are no generators in Dallas.
- PLindbergh31

An underground power transformer blew up in downtown dallas overnight from storm. Almost all of downtown is dark.

300k w/o power in area.

That's why I don't get how trading Coburn for a purely offensive player like GoGo makes any sense. No matter where you pair him on this team, there's a gaping hole. Coburn is actually a pretty damn good 4-tool player for what he's paid. I can't get why people think he's some inept, statuesque, bumbling fool out there. he does everything well, but nothing great. He's like a younger, bigger Rob Scuderi. As for Daley, I think they're a lot of the same player.
- jmatchett383

Just by virtue of his size, reach, and decent wheels, Braydon Coburn will probably still be in the NHL into his late 30's if he takes care of himself.

An underground power transformer blew up in downtown dallas overnight from storm. Almost all of downtown is dark.

300k w/o power in area.
- bgratch

Holy poop.

They dont do it consistantly or well enough for it to be an effect part of the Flyers game. I like Streit for what he is, a 2nd pairing guy that can help on the PP. I like Coburn for what he is, a 2nd pairing guy that is good defensively and marginal at the transition game. Timonen is over the hill, and is hurting the team as much as helping. So the point remains we dont have enough guys to help with the transition game out of the defensive zone.
- youarewrong

I agree. But I don't agree that trading Coburn, who does it well at his spot, is the right course of action unless it's for a player who's better/equal to the rest of Coburn's game. That's my point. Coburn, unlike any other current Flyers, can rush the puck into offensive zone by himself. He has good speed, is positionally sound, plays physically, and again, for his 3/4 spot, does a good job of moving the puck. He's actually the LAST defenseman I'd move (aside from Gus).

That's why I don't get how trading Coburn for a purely offensive player like GoGo makes any sense. No matter where you pair him on this team, there's a gaping hole. Coburn is actually a pretty damn good 4-tool player for what he's paid. I can't get why people think he's some inept, statuesque, bumbling fool out there. he does everything well, but nothing great. He's like a younger, bigger Rob Scuderi. As for Daley, I think they're a lot of the same player.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, trading Coburn wouldn't be very constructive, unless you're getting a better/younger/cheaper version of him back in the deal, which is pretty unlikely, because teams don't exactly give away 6'5, mobile, two-way D.

An underground power transformer blew up in downtown dallas overnight from storm. Almost all of downtown is dark.

300k w/o power in area.
- bgratch

Yeah, they have much bigger fish to fry than 25 guys on skates. It's a major ice storm there.

Yeah, they have much bigger fish to fry than 25 guys on skates. It's a major ice storm there.
- bodiva88

Then they need to get their priorities straight.

But seriously, that's rough. I get all pissed when we get a foot of snow and I have to shovel my driveway.

I never said he should be THE GUY. You said he doesn't do an adequate job (which you've since improved to moderate). I'm saying, for the role he is in, he does a more than adequate job. He should never ever EVER be expected to be a premier puck-mover because that's not who he is. But for the player he is, he does a fine job. And if you trade him for a better puck-mover, then you will have guys like Schenn and Grossmann who will not be able to fill his void, and that will offset what you'd lose in Coburn (unless said player will play 40 minutes a game). My point is, you can't just have one puck-mover and solve the problem. Puck movement by the defense is a team trend, and Coburn is a very good guy for moving the puck, and losing him would create a pretty large hole on what is a fragile blue line as it is

I do not want GoGo for him at all; his offensive improvement over Coburn would not offset his defensive liabilities compared to Coburn's. Unless it's a trade to get a 5-tool defenseman, I do not want to move the player who's been the team's top defenseman this season. GoGo is a 1-tool defenseman.
- jmatchett383

Lets go back to what I said, instead of what you think I said.

"I love Grossmann. The defense has been fine defensively, but the offensive problems and those "break-downs" happen because the defense can't move the puck out of the zone.

The only reason I picked Grossmann is because Dallas knows what they are getting in him. He is cheap which increases his value. Coburn for Daley would be almost an even swap, and I dont want to trade low on Schenn for a mid-level puck-moving D-man. So the best choice for a deal to get what the Flyers want from Dallas would be Grossmann IMO. "

Never said to trade Coburn. I said NOT to trade Coburn. I never said Coburn was inadequit as a defenseman. Just in responce to the below from GOA88; Coburn, Streit and Timonen and not the adequite puck movers the Flyers need.

I think Timonen, Streit and Coburn is sufficient. Its more of a system issue to me. Timonen and Streit are 40-50 pt scorers on any other team right now. Flyers dont push the pace. They are really playing a NJ Devils brand of hockey right now.

An underground power transformer blew up in downtown dallas overnight from storm. Almost all of downtown is dark.

300k w/o power in area.
- bgratch

Wasn't there a bad ice storm in Dallas a few years ago? They should have cancelled the Super Bowl.

Lets go back to what I said, instead of what you think I said.

"I love Grossmann. The defense has been fine defensively, but the offensive problems and those "break-downs" happen because the defense can't move the puck out of the zone.

The only reason I picked Grossmann is because Dallas knows what they are getting in him. He is cheap which increases his value. Coburn for Daley would be almost an even swap, and I dont want to trade low on Schenn for a mid-level puck-moving D-man. So the best choice for a deal to get what the Flyers want from Dallas would be Grossmann IMO. "

Never said to trade Coburn. I said NOT to trade Coburn. I never said Coburn was inadequit as a defenseman. Just in responce to the below from GOA88; Coburn, Streit and Timonen and not the adequite puck movers the Flyers need.

I think Timonen, Streit and Coburn is sufficient. Its more of a system issue to me. Timonen and Streit are 40-50 pt scorers on any other team right now. Flyers dont push the pace. They are really playing a NJ Devils brand of hockey right now.
- youarewrong

Okay, then I guess I got the wrong idea, I apologize. My point was that Coburn, as a 3/4 guy, is NOT inadequate at moving the puck, and is (to me) part of the solution in the puck movement category. However, that needs to be supplemented by better puck movement all around, instead of relying on him so much.

Is that fair?

Wasn't there a bad ice storm in Dallas a few years ago? They should have cancelled the Super Bowl.
- PLindbergh31

Yeah, the Cowboys' practice facility collapsed. Luckily, the Cowboys no longer like to play past the first week of January, so it wasn't an issue.

Yeah, the Cowboys' practice facility collapsed. Luckily, the Cowboys no longer like to play past the first week of January, so it wasn't an issue.
- jmatchett383

The Cowboys practice facility collapsed due to a tornado. They were practicing during it. One of the Cowboys coaches was paralyzed from the waist down due to that.

The ice storm I'm referring to was in Feb of 2011 when Dallas hosted the Super Bowl. The GB/Pittsburgh game.

The only reason I picked Grossmann is because Dallas knows what they are getting in him.
- youarewrong

I think they were willing to part w/ Grossmann in the first place because they had Dillon, Oleksiak, Nemeth, Vance, and a few other "beefy" defensive D in the system. Even with Robidas and Daley out, I don't see them wanting to take on Grossmann's deal. They could easily get another SAH shot-blocking D on a cheaper, shorter contract.

Okay, then I guess I got the wrong idea, I apologize. My point was that Coburn, as a 3/4 guy, is NOT inadequate at moving the puck, and is (to me) part of the solution in the puck movement category. However, that needs to be supplemented by better puck movement all around, instead of relying on him so much.

Is that fair?
- jmatchett383

That is fair, and exactly how I feel. Funny how these threads can act like a crazy game of "telephone" and origianal posts go so far off-course or get misinterperted.

That being said, I would still like to know how Bill feels about Flyers and Dallas swapping defense since each has what the other team needs.

Dallas has Smaller offensive guys.
Philly have bigger defensive guys.

Like Grossmann and a 2nd for Daley or Goglioski?

The Cowboys practice facility collapsed due to a tornado. They were practicing during it. One of the Cowboys coaches was paralyzed from the waist down due to that.

The ice storm I'm referring to was in Feb of 2011 when Dallas hosted the Super Bowl. The GB/Pittsburgh game.
- PLindbergh31

So am I. Didn't their practice facility collpase during it? It was some Cowboys-related building.