The issue though being, while he may be a decent fit for the 2nd line on this team, I think it would be foolish to expect more.

This team lacks elite talent, first and foremost. That unfortunately was lost with Richards, Carter, decline of Timonen, injury of Pronger and aging/trade of Briere.

It has not been replaced. I have long said this organization is too focused on the "win now". It bit them in the ass, and they cant use FA to buy their way out. If they try, they are morons to continue this culture.
- flyer_nutter

giroux and voracek are your front like talent guys now. as currently constructed, this team will only go as far as they take them.

That cap increase is burning a hole in Homer's pocket as we speak.
- wolfhounds

Well, he'd immediately step in and be the team's top defenseman. He's actually a really good player, despite the nonsense. He gets painted with the same brush that Bouwmeester used to get tagged with...namely people expect them to be Nicklas Lidstrom or Chris Pronger and when they aren't quite that they suck...when in reality they're very good players.

That cap increase is burning a hole in Homer's pocket as we speak.
- wolfhounds

ill admit, i have a ton of mixed feelings on it as a whole. one, it likely shows an increase in league revenue if its going up right? although on the other hand, contracts are about to get (frank)ing dumb real fast again, and i dont know if the league can handle that.

although i must say, it will make guys locked into current long term deals look cheaper relative to the market. the rising tide lifts the pens ship for sure

giroux and voracek are your front like talent guys now. as currently constructed, this team will only go as far as they take them.
- stayinthefnnet

Definitely. They are the Getzlaf/Perry, the Zetterbeg/Datsyuk, the Toews/Kane.

In terms of talent, its them and them alone. More so Giroux than anyone, and while many nights he is playing with absolute trash, he is also playing poorly himself. Giroux however is imo the last problem with this team other than goaltending.

Compare this lineup to the other teams in the league, and especially the top teams. Nobody should be surprised.

ill admit, i have a ton of mixed feelings on it as a whole. one, it likely shows an increase in league revenue if its going up right? although on the other hand, contracts are about to get (frank)ing dumb real fast again, and i dont know if the league can handle that.

although i must say, it will make guys locked into current long term deals look cheaper relative to the market. the rising tide lifts the pens ship for sure
- stayinthefnnet

As soon as they signed the new CBA, without any really major changes to how the cap was calculated, there was no way it wasn't going to rise significantly.

Well, he'd immediately step in and be the team's top defenseman. He's actually a really good player, despite the nonsense. He gets painted with the same brush that Bouwmeester used to get tagged with...namely people expect them to be Nicklas Lidstrom or Chris Pronger and when they aren't quite that they suck...when in reality they're very good players.
- Jsaquella

definitely a good player for sure. but worth it? worth the likely assets it would take to get him? i dont know if he is worth his 6.5 hes making now, let alone what he will likely make when he resigns.

Well, he'd immediately step in and be the team's top defenseman. He's actually a really good player, despite the nonsense. He gets painted with the same brush that Bouwmeester used to get tagged with...namely people expect them to be Nicklas Lidstrom or Chris Pronger and when they aren't quite that they suck...when in reality they're very good players.
- Jsaquella

My issue with Phaneuf is two fold. One, I think even for his skills, he will be overpaid.

Second, by bringing him in, and the contract he will get, say hello to your new #1 d-man for the last 5+ years. I do not believe Phaneuf is the right guy to put in that role, but we both know he will be played as that if they sign him here.

I understand he is the best thing available, but signing a player just because he is the best thing out there, is not often the right move. This team has a real issue with identifying talent, and being realistic with its expectations of said talent.

Get too caught up in the "hype" and marketability.

definitely a good player for sure. but worth it? worth the likely assets it would take to get him? i dont know if he is worth his 6.5 hes making now, let alone what he will likely make when he resigns.
- stayinthefnnet

Under the new CBA, he'd be worth the $7mm or so he'll end up getting, yes. He plays against the toughest opposition for the Leafs and consistently does a solid job. I'd sign him for the rumored asking price.

Definitely. They are the Getzlaf/Perry, the Zetterbeg/Datsyuk, the Toews/Kane.

In terms of talent, its them and them alone. More so Giroux than anyone, and while many nights he is playing with absolute trash, he is also playing poorly himself. Giroux however is imo the last problem with this team other than goaltending.

Compare this lineup to the other teams in the league, and especially the top teams. Nobody should be surprised.
- flyer_nutter

not to pile on him, but i dont know how you can say he is playing poorly most ights and then say he is the last problem on the team. he definitely should be your future cornerstone, and he has a decent leash for some slack, but at the same time his poor play has been one of the primary reasons you guys are having a rough go most nights.

definitely a good player for sure. but worth it? worth the likely assets it would take to get him? i dont know if he is worth his 6.5 hes making now, let alone what he will likely make when he resigns.
- stayinthefnnet

The assumption is Phaneuf will hit FA, which if the Leafs don't re-sign him, he does next summer.

Well, he'd immediately step in and be the team's top defenseman. He's actually a really good player, despite the nonsense. He gets painted with the same brush that Bouwmeester used to get tagged with...namely people expect them to be Nicklas Lidstrom or Chris Pronger and when they aren't quite that they suck...when in reality they're very good players.
- Jsaquella

He's still young and so long as the Flyers don't get into any sort of bidding war, I'm all about them going after Phaneuf. In fact they'd be silly not to. A 7 year deal takes him to 35. I'm good with that.

Under the new CBA, he'd be worth the $7mm or so he'll end up getting, yes. He plays against the toughest opposition for the Leafs and consistently does a solid job. I'd sign him for the rumored asking price.
- Jsaquella

i do have to admit, its hard for me to evaluate contracts relative to the "new" cap. although you have to wonder if this cap increase will cause him to ask for/receive more than 7 per.

My issue with Phaneuf is two fold. One, I think even for his skills, he will be overpaid.

Second, by bringing him in, and the contract he will get, say hello to your new #1 d-man for the last 5+ years. I do not believe Phaneuf is the right guy to put in that role, but we both know he will be played as that if they sign him here.

I understand he is the best thing available, but signing a player just because he is the best thing out there, is not often the right move. This team has a real issue with identifying talent, and being realistic with its expectations of said talent.

Get too caught up in the "hype" and marketability.
- flyer_nutter

He played that role for a playoff team last season. He's a legitimate number one defenseman. He's not elite, but he's a definite number one guy.

Far better to pay Phaenuf $7mm than to pay it to Schenn, Meszaros an/or Grossmann

He's still young and so long as the Flyers don't get into any sort of bidding war, I'm all about them going after Phaneuf. In fact they'd be silly not to. A 7 year deal takes him to 35. I'm good with that.
- wolfhounds

so say 7 year deal at around 58 million. would you take him for that?

ill admit, i have a ton of mixed feelings on it as a whole. one, it likely shows an increase in league revenue if its going up right? although on the other hand, contracts are about to get (frank)ing dumb real fast again, and i dont know if the league can handle that.

although i must say, it will make guys locked into current long term deals look cheaper relative to the market. the rising tide lifts the pens ship for sure
- stayinthefnnet

Yeah, the contracts are already absurd and there's no doubt they are going to get worse. The upside for teams who already have their core locked in, like the Pens, is those deals look better and better the higher the cap goes.

i do have to admit, its hard for me to evaluate contracts relative to the "new" cap. although you have to wonder if this cap increase will cause him to ask for/receive more than 7 per.
- stayinthefnnet

His reported asking price for Toronto is 7 years, $50mm. I'd be comfortable with that.

not to pile on him, but i dont know how you can say he is playing poorly most ights and then say he is the last problem on the team. he definitely should be your future cornerstone, and he has a decent leash for some slack, but at the same time his poor play has been one of the primary reasons you guys are having a rough go most nights.
- stayinthefnnet

I give Giroux a lot of slack.

The organization learned nothing from the Richards situation of rushing a player into a role they shouldn't have been placed with. Richards was the golden child, compared to Clarke, and had all the weight of the media, was the face of the team. There was no need to rush him, but the organization did it, only to find out that Richards was maybe not as mature as they wanted him to be.

After Richards was traded, there were options, Timonen to be more specific to carry the torch so to speak.

No. Instead they learned nothing, and did the same thing with a young kid in Giroux. While essentially depleting the team of talent in the process. Its Giroux, and Giroux alone with the world on his shoulders, and I am of the belief that its mental more than anything.

Its ridiculous how they ignored their past mistakes, but put the world on a kids shoulders again, just because it was good for marketing.

His reported asking price for Toronto is 7 years, $50mm. I'd be comfortable with that.
- Jsaquella

me too

so say 7 year deal at around 58 million. would you take him for that?
- stayinthefnnet

$2mm more than what Timonen is earning right now, and with Kimmo and Meszaros gone, and the cap going up, we shouldn't have a problem eating that. And in 3 or 4 years, if the cap continues upward, it looks pretty good. Yeah, I'd say the Flyers have to do that. The need for a legit #1 d-man is critcal for this team. And hopefully Phaneuf is a good mentor for the kids we're about to bring up in the next few years.

He played that role for a playoff team last season. He's a legitimate number one defenseman. He's not elite, but he's a definite number one guy.

Far better to pay Phaenuf $7mm than to pay it to Schenn, Meszaros an/or Grossmann
- Jsaquella

No worries, can agree to disagree. I don't think Phaneuf will be worth the contract he will be wanting, nor would I want to place a big part of the future of this team on his shoulders, as he would be the #1 guy.

me too
- moylander

Yup. Although his agent, with the news of the cap increase, is salivating.

His reported asking price for Toronto is 7 years, $50mm. I'd be comfortable with that.
- Jsaquella

wow. i dont know if that is a discount for toronto or anything like that, if he wants to stay there and be captain. but after seeing the letang deal, knowing the increase in cap that is coming, id have to think he could squeeze out at least a handful of more million for sure.

I give Giroux a lot of slack.

The organization learned nothing from the Richards situation of rushing a player into a role they shouldn't have been placed with. Richards with the golden child, compared to Clarke, and had all the weight of the media, was the face of the team. There was no need to rush him, but the organization did it, only to find out that Richards was maybe not as mature as they wanted him to be.

After Richards was traded, there were options, Timonen to be more specific to carry the torch so to speak.

No. Instead they learned nothing, and did the same thing with a young kid in Giroux. While essentially depleting the team of talent in the process. Its Giroux, and Giroux alone with the world on his shoulders, and I am of the belief that its mental more than anything.

Its ridiculous how they ignored their past mistakes, but put the world on a kids shoulders again, just because it was good for marketing.
- flyer_nutter

Blaming Giroux's struggles on a stupid letter on his chest...sorry, not buying it.

He's definitely weighed down by the way the guys around him are playing, plus the inability of the defense to do anything in transition, but if that C is causing his issues, then he never should have been offered an extension.

If Timonen or whomever else was there to carry the torch, why aren;t they providing more support now?

Blaming the C is just an easy, lazy excuse.

No worries, can agree to disagree. I don't think Phaneuf will be worth the contract he will be wanting, nor would I want to place a big part of the future of this team on his shoulders, as he would be the #1 guy.
- flyer_nutter

But who is, or who would you want to be our #1?

No worries, can agree to disagree. I don't think Phaneuf will be worth the contract he will be wanting, nor would I want to place a big part of the future of this team on his shoulders, as he would be the #1 guy.
- flyer_nutter

he's leaps and bounds better than anyone we have on defense. to me that alone makes him worth it. sign phanuef and get rid of the other garbage. (frank) i just got home from a game that they gave up 7 goals.... SEVEN!!!