Was it 8-2 Hawks?

- mayorofangrytown

So close

I give Giroux a lot of slack.

The organization learned nothing from the Richards situation of rushing a player into a role they shouldn't have been placed with. Richards was the golden child, compared to Clarke, and had all the weight of the media, was the face of the team. There was no need to rush him, but the organization did it, only to find out that Richards was maybe not as mature as they wanted him to be.

After Richards was traded, there were options, Timonen to be more specific to carry the torch so to speak.

No. Instead they learned nothing, and did the same thing with a young kid in Giroux. While essentially depleting the team of talent in the process. Its Giroux, and Giroux alone with the world on his shoulders, and I am of the belief that its mental more than anything.

Its ridiculous how they ignored their past mistakes, but put the world on a kids shoulders again, just because it was good for marketing.
- flyer_nutter

maybe im biased, but i think the young guys can handle it. its not as if giroux was 18. yeah timmonen would have made a nice bridge, but in a way i like the showing to giroux and everyone in that room that he is the guy. (although if the C didnt do it, that contract certainly would)

Yup. Although his agent, with the news of the cap increase, is salivating.
- wolfhounds

The one way I could live with Phaneuf, is if the team trades for say Alex Edler in Vancouver as well.

Much like with Timonen, the team improved when it brought another elite guy in Pronger to take some of the weight off.

I do think Phaneuf can be a good player, but cannot be the sole go to guy on the back end.

Trade for someone like Edler, and I would be happy.

wow. i dont know if that is a discount for toronto or anything like that, if he wants to stay there and be captain. but after seeing the letang deal, knowing the increase in cap that is coming, id have to think he could squeeze out at least a handful of more million for sure.
- stayinthefnnet

It may well be that he's willing to take a bit less to stay in Toronto, but who knows? If he gets to UFA, I expect he'll have bidders,and it could drive price up

he's leaps and bounds better than anyone we have on defense. to me that alone makes him worth it. sign phanuef and get rid of the other garbage. (frank) i just got home from a game that they gave up 7 goals.... SEVEN!!!
- moylander

He's also leaps and bounds bet7ter than anyone else in UFA

But who is, or who would you want to be our #1?
- wolfhounds

that is true. there really isnt a whole lot out there. the flyers wont pay what it takes to get one via trade. and guys of phaneufs level dont become free agents very often.

He's also leaps and bounds bet7ter than anyone else in UFA
- Jsaquella

It may well be that he's willing to take a bit less to stay in Toronto, but who knows? If he gets to UFA, I expect he'll have bidders,and it could drive price up
- Jsaquella

yeah. like i said, im gonna have to really see how the cap increase effects things to really have a good grasp on it. who knows. maybe the letang contract wont look so bad in a years time once it kicks in

maybe im biased, but i think the young guys can handle it. its not as if giroux was 18. yeah timmonen would have made a nice bridge, but in a way i like the showing to giroux and everyone in that room that he is the guy. (although if the C didnt do it, that contract certainly would)
- stayinthefnnet

It depends. I do not think Richards was able to handle it, and he has more support around him than Giroux. In terms of talent and leadership. That supporting cast of talent is a big thing. He has a streaky Voracek, and who? Matt Read? Giroux didn't just begin to struggle overnight, and its not realistic to expect him to be Crosby.

This team focuses too much on the hype and hot streaks of a player.

I think too much pressure was put on the kid too early, and its got to him. Give him more support, and he will rebound. I strongly believe that.

Or trade him, and lets do the headless chicken routine again.

that is true. there really isnt a whole lot out there. the flyers wont pay what it takes to get one via trade. and guys of phaneufs level dont become free agents very often.
- stayinthefnnet

Honestly, unless they include Couturier or Giroux, they might not have what it takes to land a Phaneuf level defenseman via trade.

I can't be upset with the team tonight. Maybe a handful of our players but not the team. The Hawks are a world class team, so what can you do? I felt the Schenn brothers weren't getting much air filtering to their brains tonight but they'll both bounce back. I don't wanna take much away from the Hawks because they're that great a team. Joel Quenneville probably should be team Canada's coach this winter and four years from now...and even eight years from now. The fact of the matter is when Sharp shot is taken and naturally bounces off Toews for a good goal, you're in trouble. When Handzus kicks the puck and his stick barely skims it to slide pass Emery and in, you're in trouble. When Brent Seabrook hammers the puck from the point, breaks his stick, the puck ricochets off Downtime and Seabrook is still able to cheer with both pieces in his hands with style, you're in trouble. A lot of skill but a lot of luck for for the Hawks.

yeah. like i said, im gonna have to really see how the cap increase effects things to really have a good grasp on it. who knows. maybe the letang contract wont look so bad in a years time once it kicks in
- stayinthefnnet

I fully expect an $80mm cap in a few years. With the league killing the front loaded contracts, teams can't be creative and tack on extra years at the end to mitigate the hit.

He's also leaps and bounds bet7ter than anyone else in UFA
- Jsaquella

My primary reason for thinking that this crew will have to wait a few years for a return to respectability.

In terms of FA, and especially d-men, the summer cannot be relied on as much anymore. This team took far too long to realise that, and not being able to draft/develop d-men has lead them to this point.

It depends. I do not think Richards was able to handle it, and he has more support around him than Giroux. In terms of talent and leadership. That supporting cast of talent is a big thing. He has a streaky Voracek, and who? Matt Read? Giroux didn't just begin to struggle overnight, and its not realistic to expect him to be Crosby.

This team focuses too much on the hype and hot streaks of a player.

I think too much pressure was put on the kid too early, and its got to him. Give him more support, and he will rebound. I strongly believe that.

Or trade him, and lets do the headless chicken routine again.
- flyer_nutter

i will agree with you that giroux, regardless of a letter or not, certainly needs some reliable help. that is a definite. but i still just am having a hard time seeing the c being that big an issue. we say kid, but he was what, 25ish when he got it? not a grizzled bill guerin age by any means, but still. not that much of a kid by NHL standards. i think more of just lack of consistency around him combined with his own mental struggles are weighing him down a lot more than the captaincy.

I fully expect an $80mm cap in a few years. With the league killing the front loaded contracts, teams can't be creative and tack on extra years at the end to mitigate the hit.
- Jsaquella

there will be mid level guys making almost as much as crosby and giroux.

My primary reason for thinking that this crew will have to wait a few years for a return to respectability.

In terms of FA, and especially d-men, the summer cannot be relied on as much anymore. This team took far too long to realise that, and not being able to draft/develop d-men has lead them to this point.
- flyer_nutter

i swear the pens and flyers have the exact opposite strategy and subsequent issues. the pens defensive prospects are second to none, but literally half of this board could probably walk on and be one of their top handful of forward prospects. the flyers need d prospects badly, and snag a stud in laughton

My primary reason for thinking that this crew will have to wait a few years for a return to respectability.

In terms of FA, and especially d-men, the summer cannot be relied on as much anymore. This team took far too long to realise that, and not being able to draft/develop d-men has lead them to this point.
- flyer_nutter

They made themselves into a Stanley Cup Finalist without being able to draft & develop defensemen.

Where they really dropped the ball is which kind of defensemen they loaded up on. If they had kept Carle or traded JvR for a guy with more mobility and puck skills, it's a much brighter picture.

Going after Phaneuf as a FA leaves assets to trade for a second defenseman. If you prefer to wait for the kids in the system, you may as well do a full tear down & ship out everyone but Couturier & Schenn up front.

i will agree with you that giroux, regardless of a letter or not, certainly needs some reliable help. that is a definite. but i still just am having a hard time seeing the c being that big an issue. we say kid, but he was what, 25ish when he got it? not a grizzled bill guerin age by any means, but still. not that much of a kid by NHL standards. i think more of just lack of consistency around him combined with his own mental struggles are weighing him down a lot more than the captaincy.
- stayinthefnnet

No I definitely don't think its the "C".

More than anything I think its being the face of the franchise, with very little supporting cast. From top to bottom. It got to him. That and I think the injuries to his hands over the last few years have taken a toll. His hands were what made him special, your boy Crosby had a role in those injuries.

The Flyers need to stick by their guy.

there will be mid level guys making almost as much as crosby and giroux.
- stayinthefnnet

Possible, because the floor rises, too. So teams like Florida will drive up prices on mid level guys because they need to reach the floor.

trade giroux to the devils for cory schnider, solves both teams problems. then maybe they can both take advantage of this piss poor division?

I can't be upset with the team tonight. Maybe a handful of our players but not the team. The Hawks are a world class team, so what can you do? I felt the Schenn brothers weren't getting much air filtering to their brains tonight but they'll both bounce back. I don't wanna take much away from the Hawks because they're that great a team. Joel Quenneville probably should be team Canada's coach this winter and four years from now...and even eight years from now. The fact of the matter is when Sharp shot is taken and naturally bounces off Toews for a good goal, you're in trouble. When Handzus kicks the puck and his stick barely skims it to slide pass Emery and in, you're in trouble. When Brent Seabrook hammers the puck from the point, breaks his stick, the puck ricochets off Downtime and Seabrook is still able to cheer with both pieces in his hands with style, you're in trouble. A lot of skill but a lot of luck for for the Hawks.
- Schenn2shine

looking on the bright side of life. i'm impressed!

Possible, because the floor rises, too. So teams like Florida will drive up prices on mid level guys because they need to reach the floor.
- Jsaquella

we are fortunate to have 2 teams that will continue to spend to pushing the cap ceiling at least.

i swear the pens and flyers have the exact opposite strategy and subsequent issues. the pens defensive prospects are second to none, but literally half of this board could probably walk on and be one of their top handful of forward prospects. the flyers need d prospects badly, and snag a stud in laughton
- stayinthefnnet

We're hoping Morin and Hagg turn out to be top pairings guys, or 3/4 at worst. Just have to wait and see.

trade giroux to the devils for cory schnider, solves both teams problems. then maybe they can both take advantage of this piss poor division?
- devfan30

The one issue we don't have this season is in net.

They made themselves into a Stanley Cup Finalist without being able to draft & develop defensemen.

Where they really dropped the ball is which kind of defensemen they loaded up on. If they had kept Carle or traded JvR for a guy with more mobility and puck skills, it's a much brighter picture.

Going after Phaneuf as a FA leaves assets to trade for a second defenseman. If you prefer to wait for the kids in the system, you may as well do a full tear down & ship out everyone but Couturier & Schenn up front.
- Jsaquella

They also made it to those finals with a very inconsistent season, and had to win game 82 with a shootout.

Call me crazy, but I think the biggest issue with that Carter/Richards era aside from goaltending was putting too much weight on the shoulders of players best suited to secondary roles. Much like what it happening now.

As for bSchenn, I've listed a few times on here that I don't really see him as a core guy going forward but that's just me. I would be in favour of Phaneuf, but only if they go after say a guy like Edler out in Vancouver. Much like Giroux needs support up front, Phaneuf will need support on the back end, or be put in a position he will be bound to fail in.