LMAO, with each post, the legend of Carts and Richie grows exponentially.

You forget... even in that brief period of when they were ppg players, there were a lot of people complaining that neither of them were really elite players to build a team around... basically same BS that we're hearing about our youngsters today.
- Tomahawk

They aren't elite players. They're pretty good players. Schenn is mesh.

Schenn lacks the sheer goal scoring prowess of Carter, and the two way game and smarts that Richards showed. I'll definitely agree to that.

But, Schenn definitely has ability that hasn't really been on consistent display. He's a lot like JvR to me. When he finds his niche, he'll do well. If he's traded, we'll hear whining when he ends up becoming a Nate Horton type guy, and the Flyers will get shredded for lacking patience.

I do agree that Couturier could end up being the best of all four. He doesn't skate as well as Carter, but he's got a ton of smarts and now he's gaining confidence and assuming a bigger role.

I also think that they way Laviolette handled both Schenn & Couturier was detrimental to their development, and the way that Hitchcock & Stevens handled Richards and Carter made their transition to the NHL easier and more fluid.
- Jsaquella

I think most people would agree that they'd rather have a 23 year old Richards than a 23 year old Carter. The ironic part is that the return for Carter is going to end up being much better than the return for Richards.

Wrong.

Mike Richards averaged the 8th highest TOI per game on the Flyers in his rookie year, and several of the guys ahead of him played far fewer games, like Primeau(9), Petr Nedved (28), Kapanen(58) & Forsberg(60). That means he was in the top 9 at worst and not on the 4th line. Both Carter and Richards were regulars on the Power play in their rookie season, too.

Conversely, Couturier played an average of 26 seconds per game on the PP in his rookie season, while Schenn was a fill in, seeing the 8th highest PP TOI and playing just 54 games in his rookie season.

Again, Richards and Carter were used in more offensive roles than Schenn and especially Couturier during their first two seasons, and therefore produced more.

If you can't see the promise of Couturier or Schenn, I don't know what to say.
- Jsaquella

Didn't realize coots was involved. I think coots has a ton more upside than Schenn.

I think most people would agree that they'd rather have a 23 year old Richards than a 23 year old Carter. The ironic part is that the return for Carter is going to end up being much better than the return for Richards.
- PhillySportsGuy

Voracek and coots right?

Schenn and Simmonds?

Can you tell us about his performance?
- FlyersGrace

I've got his scouting report around here somewhere...

Give me a minute.

I think we all agree the Bryzgalov fiasco is firmly laid at the feet of Snider. He mandated Holmgren to go out and get the top goalie on the market.

I don't know if other moves are being made with Snider over Holmgren's shoulder. So I'm not sure anyone can comment definitively on how much free rein Holmgren has.
- PLindbergh31

I think Snider told him he wanted to make the playoffs this season. Homer needed to improve the current roster and he didn't want to trade young talent or picks so he went the way of FA.

Voracek and coots right?

Schenn and Simmonds?
- Flyersgod

did they take stolarz with the 2nd from LA or was that the 2nd from bob?

nm it looks like it was the cbus pick

Voracek and coots right?

Schenn and Simmonds?
- Flyersgod

Voracek > Simmonds
Couturier > Schenn

I think we all agree the Bryzgalov fiasco is firmly laid at the feet of Snider. He mandated Holmgren to go out and get the top goalie on the market.

I don't know if other moves are being made with Snider over Holmgren's shoulder. So I'm not sure anyone can comment definitively on how much free rein Holmgren has.
- PLindbergh31

I think that the Richards and Carter trades had Snider's fingerprints as well. The trouble I have is that too many of the other moves don't have Snider's fingerprints.

I don't think Holmgren's been a disaster. But where's he's shown he can build a team into a contender, he's dropped the ball in maintaining one.

Losing Pronger was a massive blow, and he traded away a lot of assets to try and patch the hole. That hurts the depth of the system, not to mention what he dealt away to land Pronger.

I don't know that Hextall is any better. I do know that Holmgren never whiffed on a first rounder, where as during Hexy's time as asst GM in LA they missed twice in the top 15 ( Thomas Hickey at 4th overall & Colten Teubert at 10th), so I'm not sold that Hexy will be the answer, even without Snider's meddling.

I do know that I no longer feel that Holmgren is the answer.

did they take stolarz with the 2nd from LA or was that the 2nd from bob?
- -davies-

I think from Bob. I think the 2nd from LA was Cousins or maybe part of the trade for Grossmann

Remember the old days where no matter how bad we were we always at least drove to the net.

This perimeter game doesn't get teams a cup. It gets them a top 10 draft pick.

Why get guys like Simmonds and Hartnell if you aren't going to crash the net?
- Flyersgod

Good call! I've been saying that for the last two seasons as well. Another aspect that drives me crazy is Homers' signing of mediocre players to long term contracts. Worse yet, is way too many of these players have no movement clauses! How do you hold players accountable without fear of being traded to some dog crap city with nothing to do and uprooting everything you know! Some of these guys are making millions with no repercussions for basically dogging it, and the GM is complicit by giving them these bloated NM clauses. This team can't make many moves to improve the club following this path!!! grrrrrrr!!!! Frustrating!!!

I think from Bob. I think the 2nd from LA was Cousins or maybe part of the trade for Grossmann
- PhillySportsGuy

yep stars picked somebody named devin shore with it

I think we all agree the Bryzgalov fiasco is firmly laid at the feet of Snider. He mandated Holmgren to go out and get the top goalie on the market.

I don't know if other moves are being made with Snider over Holmgren's shoulder. So I'm not sure anyone can comment definitively on how much free rein Holmgren has.
- PLindbergh31

All owners will meddle to varying degrees... a good GM knows how to diplomatically keep an owner out of his own way... Homer is too much of a company man (as is Berube) to stand up to Snider... the only push-back that Snider seems to ever have gotten over the past few years has been from Lavi resisting the call to go full-on Rangers/Devils in their style of play.

I suspect that Hexie, despite his virtues, is also a company man at heart, or will at least act like one until his profile rises.

I want to trade jmatchett for picks, prospects, future considerations or some really good, barely used equipment. Any takers?
- wolfhounds

Sorry for trying to be a bit level-headed and not jump from conclusion to conclusion from day to day

FlyersGod: Must be a liberal thing.

I see Couturier having much more upside than Schenn. Couturier could end up being better than Carter, Richards or Schenn.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree. Coots is already something special. If he continues to develop - watch out WORLD!

I'll give it a shot:

1.) Not sure if you recall, but they also made a run at Parise and Suter. Carle got lost in that shuffle. I won't shed any tears over losing Matt Carle. But could they use his mobility? Yeah, sure.

2.) Who would have thought Nashville would match that outrageous contract?

3.) Last season, that trade looked pretty good for both sides. Let's let that one play out a bit.

4.) and 5.) They did not have to give up any assets to obtain Timonen and Streit. That's pretty much the best I can say about that, given the way both guys are playing this year.
- johndewar

Some fair points. But come on, did everyone except Holmgren not read the tea leaves regarding Parise and Suter. That was a pipe dream at best.

I think most people would agree that they'd rather have a 23 year old Richards than a 23 year old Carter. The ironic part is that the return for Carter is going to end up being much better than the return for Richards.
- PhillySportsGuy

In the end, I agree. They got a better return for Carter than Richards. Voracek has enough skill to be a top line player. They got Couturier with the 1st rounder in the deal, and then got Nick Cousins with the other pick from Columbus.

That's a good return for Carter.

I haven't given up on Schenn yet, but I seen his ceiling as more a Nate Horton type guy than Richards. I wouldn't trade Richards for Horton, so...meh. But Simmonds is a good second liner and PP guy, so it's not like trading Richards fo a bag of dried dog poop. They also got a 2nd for Richards that was swung to Dallas for Grossmann

I see Couturier having much more upside than Schenn. Couturier could end up being better than Carter, Richards or Schenn.
- PhillySportsGuy

Only because he's been playing well lately... it wasn't long ago when people were talking 'lowered expectations' with regard to Couturier, same as people are dumping on Schenn now.

IMO, both look like they'll be good players. Schenn is actually pretty productive for a kid in his 21-22 year old season.... Couturier's been ppg for the past little while... in a year or two, we're going to forget we were ever having these kinds of conversations... both will be humming along nicely.

I think that the Richards and Carter trades had Snider's fingerprints as well. The trouble I have is that too many of the other moves don't have Snider's fingerprints.

I don't think Holmgren's been a disaster. But where's he's shown he can build a team into a contender, he's dropped the ball in maintaining one.

Losing Pronger was a massive blow, and he traded away a lot of assets to try and patch the hole. That hurts the depth of the system, not to mention what he dealt away to land Pronger.

I don't know that Hextall is any better. I do know that Holmgren never whiffed on a first rounder, where as during Hexy's time as asst GM in LA they missed twice in the top 15 ( Thomas Hickey at 4th overall & Colten Teubert at 10th), so I'm not sold that Hexy will be the answer, even without Snider's meddling.

I do know that I no longer feel that Holmgren is the answer.
- Jsaquella

Agree. I'm not saying Holmgren has been a disaster at all. He's made some very astute transactions. I just feel it's time for a change. Regardless of who was behind the Richards and Carter moves, I think the return was solid. So I'm not going to shred Holmgren or Snider for that.

I'm hoping Snider gets out of Hextall's way, but I know that isn't likely, so I'm not sure he will be an improvement, but I think it's time to find out.

Only because he's been playing well lately... it wasn't long ago when people were talking 'lowered expectations' with regard to Couturier, same as people are dumping on Schenn now.
- Tomahawk

That is why I sometimes can't stand this board. As soon as a guy (especially a young guy) has a dip in his performance, he's a bust, trade him.

In 11/12, Voracek was a promising good future second liner.
In 12/13, Voracek was a stud, and would score 40 in a full season, maybe more on a better team and finally arrived as a first line winger,
In 13/14, Voracek sucks and should be traded for a "real" first line winger.

Some fair points. But come on, did everyone except Holmgren not read the tea leaves regarding Parise and Suter. That was a pipe dream at best.
- PLindbergh31

I agree, I thought that way too.

But if you don't ask the question, the answer is always "no".

Great assessment. Exactly WHO on this team are opponents afraid of seeing with the puck on his stick? Besides G...Voracek? cut, spin, cut, fumble the puck away.....or pass to a covered linemate?
- edmac812

Just read this post. Going to say one word......Amen!

Agree. I'm not saying Holmgren has been a disaster at all. He's made some very astute transactions. I just feel it's time for a change. Regardless of who was behind the Richards and Carter moves, I think the return was solid. So I'm not going to shred Holmgren or Snider for that.

I'm hoping Snider gets out of Hextall's way, but I know that isn't likely, so I'm not sure he will be an improvement, but I think it's time to find out.
- PLindbergh31

Basically, the biggest thing I want Snider to do is to just stop talking to the (frank)ing media, especially after a disappointing loss.

That "We will not go through this again with our goaltending" poop needs to never happen again.

That is why I sometimes can't stand this board. As soon as a guy (especially a young guy) has a dip in his performance, he's a bust, trade him.

In 11/12, Voracek was a promising good future second liner.
In 12/13, Voracek was a stud, and would score 40 in a full season, maybe more on a better team and finally arrived as a first line winger,
In 13/14, Voracek sucks and should be traded for a "real" first line winger.
- jmatchett383

The funniest thing I see is stuff like that.

If I have untouchables, it's Giroux, Couturier, Voracek & Schenn. If I'm including one of them in a deal, it's going to be for a big return.

Agree. I'm not saying Holmgren has been a disaster at all. He's made some very astute transactions. I just feel it's time for a change. Regardless of who was behind the Richards and Carter moves, I think the return was solid. So I'm not going to shred Holmgren or Snider for that.

I'm hoping Snider gets out of Hextall's way, but I know that isn't likely, so I'm not sure he will be an improvement, but I think it's time to find out.
- PLindbergh31

If I had an expectation for Hextall, it would be to take scouting and building up the farm more seriously.

It's probably better now, then when Clarke was the GM, but it's not near what it needs to be.