Maybe Colorado will be interested in a Kimmo rental? If this is his last season I hope he would help us out by agreeing to a trade. It would only be for a few months.
- Feanor

You read my mind (which is very much like reading a comic book!)
If they do move Timonen, thats exactly where I think he's going. Colorado has a glaring need for a solid vet dman and the cap space to add Kimmo to the roster. Plus though his cap hit is 6mil, 3mil was paid as a signing bonus so it wouldnt cost the Avs much in real dollars

Just a quick question regarding Holmgren. Why does anyone want him to be retained and be a part of rebuilding this defense core.
- PLindbergh31

I think almost everyone around here is ready for Hextall to take over.

Carter can skate circles around all three of them. Couts, Schenn and Richards aren't very good skaters. Couts and Richards make up for it with very good anticipation.
- PhillySportsGuy

Not to mention that Richards can out hit them all. And both Richards and Carter can out pass the other 2.

Just a quick question regarding Holmgren. Why does anyone want him to be retained and be a part of rebuilding this defense core.

Look at his last few years regarding the defense

1. He handled the Matt Carle situation poorly. ( I did not criticize him for this b/c I'm not a Carle fan to put it mildly) I have seen a lot of people who weren't happy regarding the Carle situation.

2. Striking out on Weber without any backup plan in place.

3. Trading JVR for a statue in Luke Schenn

4. Giving Timonen a 6 million dollar deal when he appeared just about toast

5. Signing Mark Streit

Not sure how these moves can be defended. Holmgren has done some nice things in his tenure, but he's left the Flyers blueline in virtual shambles.

Edit: And yes I know losing Pronger has a domino effect on the defense.
- PLindbergh31

He's done some good things like acquire mason and Alt for very little. His last couple drafts appear to be decent. I, also, don't mind the Kimmo deal. It didn't inhibit them from doing anything else. He, also, found guys like Read and Raffl as Free Agents.

He's made some mistakes, but he has done some good things. I think some of his bad signings are driven by Snider wanting to win RIGHT NOW all the time.

I would understand if the team retained him or let him go. In the end it's up to the team to tell Snider that they need to build through the draft and be patient.

Not to mention that Richards can out hit them all. And both Richards and Carter can out pass the other 2.
- youarewrong

I've never seen Carter pass. Schenn hits much more often than Richards. Richards was a very sneaky hitter and timed his. Schenn is bigger and more physical. Couturier certainly mixes it up more than Carter.

Not to mention that Richards can out hit them all. And both Richards and Carter can out pass the other 2.
- youarewrong

LMAO, with each post, the legend of Carts and Richie grows exponentially.

You forget... even in that brief period of when they were ppg players, there were a lot of people complaining that neither of them were really elite players to build a team around... basically same BS that we're hearing about our youngsters today.

Just a quick question regarding Holmgren. Why does anyone want him to be retained and be a part of rebuilding this defense core.

Look at his last few years regarding the defense

1. He handled the Matt Carle situation poorly. ( I did not criticize him for this b/c I'm not a Carle fan to put it mildly) I have seen a lot of people who weren't happy regarding the Carle situation.

2. Striking out on Weber without any backup plan in place.

3. Trading JVR for a statue in Luke Schenn

4. Giving Timonen a 6 million dollar deal when he appeared just about toast

5. Signing Mark Streit

Not sure how these moves can be defended. Holmgren has done some nice things in his tenure, but he's left the Flyers blueline in virtual shambles.

Edit: And yes I know losing Pronger has a domino effect on the defense.
- PLindbergh31

You can call me crazy, but I think Homer has a better chance of overhauling this team and getting something decent out of it, then if someone else did it. And I think overhauling this team is a better option then sitting by with what we have. At least if you reach and fall you will be bad enough to get decent picks. At this rate they are destined for 15 overall in the draft for the next 7-8 years. I feel a 97-2008 Rangers drought coming.

What are you smoking. Richards started his career as a 4th line player just like Couts did. And isn't as much as what they produced as what they showed. Carter showed that he could be a scoring threat from day 1. Richards showed that he could play a good shutdown game and still have offensive side. He also had a hell of a mean streak and was a great hitter and leader. That is why you could see them as the core of the team.

With Couts and Schenn, you have to say "if". "If" Couturier can develop an offensive side, that we havent seen much of..... "If" Schenn can add some speed and have consistancy in scoring. You cant, and shouldnt be building your team around "IFs".
- youarewrong

Wrong.

Mike Richards averaged the 8th highest TOI per game on the Flyers in his rookie year, and several of the guys ahead of him played far fewer games, like Primeau(9), Petr Nedved (28), Kapanen(58) & Forsberg(60). That means he was in the top 9 at worst and not on the 4th line. Both Carter and Richards were regulars on the Power play in their rookie season, too.

Conversely, Couturier played an average of 26 seconds per game on the PP in his rookie season, while Schenn was a fill in, seeing the 8th highest PP TOI and playing just 54 games in his rookie season.

Again, Richards and Carter were used in more offensive roles than Schenn and especially Couturier during their first two seasons, and therefore produced more.

If you can't see the promise of Couturier or Schenn, I don't know what to say.

I disagree.

Look this loss sucks a lot, and others have too. But I "look around" in here and I see mutiny.

I'm not gonna join. I'm staying optimistic. Why? Because they play more good hockey than bad. The problem is, when they play bad hockey, it's REALLY bad. But it's only for 10 minutes a game.

If they cut that in half, they could rip off some solid streaks during the season.

And guess what? This division sucks. If they can squeak in....well....we know what can happen in the playoffs, even when a team squeaks in.

Go Flyers.
- Giroux_Is_God

You deserve a hug...

I think almost everyone around here is ready for Hextall to take over.
- Feanor

Oh ok. I remember back when Laviolette was being made the scapegoat a good amount of people defending and wanting to keep Holmgren when I said they both should be relieved of their duties.

I guess in the grand scheme of things if the GM is basically Snider's puppet it doesn't matter.

Maybe Colorado will be interested in a Kimmo rental? If this is his last season I hope he would help us out by agreeing to a trade. It would only be for a few months.
- Feanor

if timonen gets traded it better be somewhere that doesn't make me vomit.

LMAO, with each post, the legend of Carts and Richie grows exponentially.

You forget... even in that brief period of when they were ppg players, there were a lot of people complaining that neither of them were really elite players to build a team around... basically same BS that we're hearing about our youngsters today.
- Tomahawk

The Flyers basically need to find a top pairing and 2/3 of a #1 line and they'll be on their way

Just a quick question regarding Holmgren. Why does anyone want him to be retained and be a part of rebuilding this defense core.

Look at his last few years regarding the defense

1. He handled the Matt Carle situation poorly. ( I did not criticize him for this b/c I'm not a Carle fan to put it mildly) I have seen a lot of people who weren't happy regarding the Carle situation.

2. Striking out on Weber without any backup plan in place.

3. Trading JVR for a statue in Luke Schenn

4. Giving Timonen a 6 million dollar deal when he appeared just about toast

5. Signing Mark Streit

Not sure how these moves can be defended. Holmgren has done some nice things in his tenure, but he's left the Flyers blueline in virtual shambles.

Edit: And yes I know losing Pronger has a domino effect on the defense.
- PLindbergh31

I'll give it a shot:

1.) Not sure if you recall, but they also made a run at Parise and Suter. Carle got lost in that shuffle. I won't shed any tears over losing Matt Carle. But could they use his mobility? Yeah, sure.

2.) Who would have thought Nashville would match that outrageous contract?

3.) Last season, that trade looked pretty good for both sides. Let's let that one play out a bit.

4.) and 5.) They did not have to give up any assets to obtain Timonen and Streit. That's pretty much the best I can say about that, given the way both guys are playing this year.

Wrong.

Mike Richards averaged the 8th highest TOI per game on the Flyers in his rookie year, and several of the guys ahead of him played far fewer games, like Primeau(9), Petr Nedved (28), Kapanen(58) & Forsberg(60). That means he was in the top 9 at worst and not on the 4th line. Both Carter and Richards were regulars on the Power play in their rookie season, too.

Conversely, Couturier played an average of 26 seconds per game on the PP in his rookie season, while Schenn was a fill in, seeing the 8th highest PP TOI and playing just 54 games in his rookie season.

Again, Richards and Carter were used in more offensive roles than Schenn and especially Couturier during their first two seasons, and therefore produced more.

If you can't see the promise of Couturier or Schenn, I don't know what to say.
- Jsaquella

I see Couturier having much more upside than Schenn. Couturier could end up being better than Carter, Richards or Schenn.

Oh ok. I remember back when Laviolette was being made the scapegoat a good amount of people defending and wanting to keep Holmgren when I said they both should be relieved of their duties.

I guess in the grand scheme of things if the GM is basically Snider's puppet it doesn't matter.
- PLindbergh31

That's always been my biggest defense of Holmgren.

And while I stand by my insistence that Laviolette should have been fired, I also agree that it's likely time for Holmgren to join him.

What are you smoking. Richards started his career as a 4th line player just like Couts did. And isn't as much as what they produced as what they showed. Carter showed that he could be a scoring threat from day 1. Richards showed that he could play a good shutdown game and still have offensive side. He also had a hell of a mean streak and was a great hitter and leader. That is why you could see them as the core of the team.

With Couts and Schenn, you have to say "if". "If" Couturier can develop an offensive side, that we havent seen much of..... "If" Schenn can add some speed and have consistancy in scoring. You cant, and shouldnt be building your team around "IFs".
- youarewrong

Richards was about 2 years older than Couts when he played his first season with the Flyers.

I'm a fan of Richards' style of play, which is why I don't want to trade Laughton. I don't think there's any doubt legitimate comparisons can be made of the two.

Also, Yakupov is a big "if" as well. But he's an "if" we didn't pick so we'd have to give up multiple pieces to acquire while hoping for the best. (edit in there...)

Wrong.

Mike Richards averaged the 8th highest TOI per game on the Flyers in his rookie year, and several of the guys ahead of him played far fewer games, like Primeau(9), Petr Nedved (28), Kapanen(58) & Forsberg(60). That means he was in the top 9 at worst and not on the 4th line. Both Carter and Richards were regulars on the Power play in their rookie season, too.

Conversely, Couturier played an average of 26 seconds per game on the PP in his rookie season, while Schenn was a fill in, seeing the 8th highest PP TOI and playing just 54 games in his rookie season.

Again, Richards and Carter were used in more offensive roles than Schenn and especially Couturier during their first two seasons, and therefore produced more.

If you can't see the promise of Couturier or Schenn, I don't know what to say.
- Jsaquella

and there you have it

I think almost everyone around here is ready for Hextall to take over.
- Feanor

I think even Holmgren knows this is inevitable.

Not to mention that Richards can out hit them all. And both Richards and Carter can out pass the other 2.
- youarewrong

The idea with Schenn was he would grow into Richards mold. I don't care about stats when comparing players. Schenn is nowhere close to being a Richards. Schenn is comparable to Richards if you tore Richie's heart out.

The idea with Schenn was he would grow into Richards mold. I don't care about stats when comparing players. Schenn is nowhere close to being a Richards. Schenn is comparable to Richards if you tore Richie's heart out.
- Flyersgod

I think it was a poor comparison because Schenn has never shown much defensive capability. Even when Richards was young, you could still see he was a good defensive player.

Schenn may end up being a good player, but I doubt he ever gets much PK time or gets matched up against top lines regularly.

I see Couturier having much more upside than Schenn. Couturier could end up being better than Carter, Richards or Schenn.
- PhillySportsGuy

Schenn lacks the sheer goal scoring prowess of Carter, and the two way game and smarts that Richards showed. I'll definitely agree to that.

But, Schenn definitely has ability that hasn't really been on consistent display. He's a lot like JvR to me. When he finds his niche, he'll do well. If he's traded, we'll hear whining when he ends up becoming a Nate Horton type guy, and the Flyers will get shredded for lacking patience.

I do agree that Couturier could end up being the best of all four. He doesn't skate as well as Carter, but he's got a ton of smarts and now he's gaining confidence and assuming a bigger role.

I also think that they way Laviolette handled both Schenn & Couturier was detrimental to their development, and the way that Hitchcock & Stevens handled Richards and Carter made their transition to the NHL easier and more fluid.

Just a quick question regarding Holmgren. Why does anyone want him to be retained and be a part of rebuilding this defense core.

Look at his last few years regarding the defense

1. He handled the Matt Carle situation poorly. ( I did not criticize him for this b/c I'm not a Carle fan to put it mildly) I have seen a lot of people who weren't happy regarding the Carle situation.

2. Striking out on Weber without any backup plan in place.

3. Trading JVR for a statue in Luke Schenn

4. Giving Timonen a 6 million dollar deal when he appeared just about toast

5. Signing Mark Streit

Not sure how these moves can be defended. Holmgren has done some nice things in his tenure, but he's left the Flyers blueline in virtual shambles.

Edit: And yes I know losing Pronger has a domino effect on the defense.
- PLindbergh31

No doubt he fumbled big time with Carle. I think he was never going to resign anyway. Should have moved him at the draft or TDL. Homer has no idea how to maximize value of what he has. And the team will suffer while he learns.

Things have gotten bad when we're being nostalgic about Jeff Carter
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree. I'm glad he's gone.

That's always been my biggest defense of Holmgren.

And while I stand by my insistence that Laviolette should have been fired, I also agree that it's likely time for Holmgren to join him.
- Jsaquella

I think we all agree the Bryzgalov fiasco is firmly laid at the feet of Snider. He mandated Holmgren to go out and get the top goalie on the market.

I don't know if other moves are being made with Snider over Holmgren's shoulder. So I'm not sure anyone can comment definitively on how much free rein Holmgren has.

I want to trade jmatchett for picks, prospects, future considerations or some really good, barely used equipment. Any takers?
- wolfhounds

Can you tell us about his performance?