Yeah, but it wasn't just Schenn. And that fact could be used by some as an argument for while being used as an argument against by others...
- wolfhounds

A lot of times, a good young player gets a rep as a riser, and a "smart" GM wants to be the guy who steals him away. The Kings shot down offers for Schenn almost from the day they drafted him, until they had a chance to land Richards.

The Flyers gave up a lot for Schenn, a kid with 9 NHL games on his resume.
- Jsaquella

B. Schenn? more like the kings gave up a lot for Richards
Schenn, Simmonds, and a pick right? what was done with that pick again? acquired grossman?
TBH i think LA massively overpaid for Richards because a player like Thornton went for Sturm, Wayne Primeau, and Stuart

Schenn has massively more upside than sturm ever had and well wayne primeau is only really known for being the brother of keith and brad stuart is nothing more than 5/6 dman

not to mention Joe Thornton is light years better than Richards

B. Schenn? more like the kings gave up a lot for Richards
Schenn, Simmonds, and a pick right? what was done with that pick again? acquired grossman?
TBH i think LA massively overpaid for Richards because a player like Thornton went for Sturm, Wayne Primeau, and Stuart

Schenn has massively more upside than sturm ever had and well wayne primeau is only really known for being the brother of keith and brad stuart is nothing more than 5/6 dman

not to mention Joe Thornton is light years better than Richards
- 2Real

Thornton is a better player. Richards is a winner.

Richards is one of a handful of guys that have won the Memorial Cup, WJC Gold, Olympic Gold, The Calder Cup and the Stanley Cup.

Also, Marco Sturm is/was a better player when the Bruins acquired him than Wayne Simmonds was when the Flyers acquired him...and if you think Brad Stuart is only a 5 or 6 defenseman...well, I'm not sure what to say.

Thornton is a better player. Richards is a winner.

Richards is one of a handful of guys that have won the Memorial Cup, WJC Gold, Olympic Gold, The Calder Cup and the Stanley Cup.

Also, Marco Sturm is/was a better player when the Bruins acquired him than Wayne Simmonds was when the Flyers acquired him...and if you think Brad Stuart is only a 5 or 6 defenseman...well, I'm not sure what to say.
- Jsaquella

ok brad stuart is 4/5 dman at best he's currently the 4 man on the sharks paired with dan boyle

I look at the core as being Giroux, Couturier and Voracek...to an extent Brayden Schenn. Those would be my 4 "untouchables".
- Jsaquella

I would trade Couts & Jake in the same deal if I thought it get Shea Weber - otherwise yes, keep them both.

ok brad stuart is 4/5 dman at best he's currently the 4 man on the sharks paired with dan boyle
- 2Real

At the time, he was a top pair defenseman, and pretty solid player. Better than what the Flyers got in Grossmann.

I would trade Couts & Jake in the same deal if I thought it get Shea Weber - otherwise yes, keep them both.
- moylander

There are deals where I'd be willing to trade one of them, but it'd need to be an overpayment to say the least.

At the time, he was a top pair defenseman, and pretty solid player. Better than what the Flyers got in Grossmann.
- Jsaquella

stuart with detroit when they won the cup was paired with kronwall
kronwall was the 3 stuart the 4

stuart with detroit when they won the cup was paired with kronwall
kronwall was the 3 stuart the 4
- 2Real

Yeah, and the top pair had some guy named Lidstrom, which means that that second pair is likely a first pair on most other teams.

coopa troopa with the TD

Yeah, and the top pair had some guy named Lidstrom, which means that that second pair is likely a first pair on most other teams.
- Jsaquella

and it also means he wouldn't be good enough on a top pair on other teams

what a great throw by foles on the run

and it also means he wouldn't be good enough on a top pair on other teams
- 2Real

By what logic? The same kind of logic that live blogs a football game and doesn't realize what the outcome means for the team he roots for?

Ron Francis was a second line center behind Mario Lemieux. On 90% of the rest of the teams in the league, he's a top line player. Being the second pair on a team with a Legendary guy in the top pair doesn't mean that you're a 4th defenseman.

By what logic? The same kind of logic that live blogs a football game and doesn't realize what the outcome means for the team he roots for?

Ron Francis was a second line center behind Mario Lemieux. On 90% of the rest of the teams in the league, he's a top line player. Being the second pair on a team with a Legendary guy in the top pair doesn't mean that you're a 4th defenseman.
- Jsaquella

what logic dictates he's a #1 on any other team? he's a number 4 on the sharks right now

mccoy is a freaking stud

relentless

what logic dictates he's a #1 on any other team? he's a number 4 on the sharks right now
- 2Real

I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about at the time of the trade. When Stuart was traded for Thornton, he was a 25 year old, top pair defenseman. Now, 9 years after the trade, he's still better than Nicklas Grossmann and only costs $100K more a year.

The logic is dictated by having watched him play for several years with the Red Wings, where he was a key piece for a team that won a Stanley Cup and made a second Final appearance. The logic and fact that he was on the second pair behind a all time great in Lidstrom & an all star caliber player in Rafalski.

It's not as if he was losing ice time to Hal Gill.

By what logic? The same kind of logic that live blogs a football game and doesn't realize what the outcome means for the team he roots for?

Ron Francis was a second line center behind Mario Lemieux. On 90% of the rest of the teams in the league, he's a top line player. Being the second pair on a team with a Legendary guy in the top pair doesn't mean that you're a 4th defenseman.
- Jsaquella

most of the time he was their #1 center while Mario was out with injuries, cancer etc.

also, Marco Sturm was a solid top 6 forward with speed & offensive/defensive skills, his game was hurt in Boston by injuries.

most of the time he was their #1 center while Mario was out with injuries, cancer etc.

also, Marco Sturm was a solid top 6 forward with speed & offensive/defensive skills, his game was hurt in Boston by injuries.
- puckhead17

Yes, but when both were healthy, Francis was the second liner. Anywhere else he's a top liner. Other examples: Messier behind Gretzky, Malkin behind Crosby.

And yes, Sturm was a very solid player when he was moved in the Thornton trade. The Bruins got a good young defensemen and a good top six winger...which isn't an awful return, and more than what the Flyers got for Richards, which was a top prospect, a 3rd liner and a 2nd rounder.

I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about at the time of the trade. When Stuart was traded for Thornton, he was a 25 year old, top pair defenseman. Now, 9 years after the trade, he's still better than Nicklas Grossmann and only costs $100K more a year.

The logic is dictated by having watched him play for several years with the Red Wings, where he was a key piece for a team that won a Stanley Cup and made a second Final appearance. The logic and fact that he was on the second pair behind a all time great in Lidstrom & an all star caliber player in Rafalski.

It's not as if he was losing ice time to Hal Gill.
- Jsaquella

whatever i disagree
go eagles

Yes, but when both were healthy, Francis was the second liner. Anywhere else he's a top liner. Other examples: Messier behind Gretzky, Malkin behind Crosby.

And yes, Sturm was a very solid player when he was moved in the Thornton trade. The Bruins got a good young defensemen and a good top six winger...which isn't an awful return, and more than what the Flyers got for Richards, which was a top prospect, a 3rd liner and a 2nd rounder.
- Jsaquella

the package for Thornton was better, but, it was criticized because players like Thornton don't come along too often & are hard to come by.

another example Forsberg behind Sakic or vice versa

the package for Thornton was better, but, it was criticized because players like Thornton don't come along too often & are hard to come by.

another example Forsberg behind Sakic or vice versa
- puckhead17

yep, another great example.

It's true that the package was criticized, but Thornton, as great as he is, hasn't won a title for the Sharks.

yep, another great example.

It's true that the package was criticized, but Thornton, as great as he is, hasn't won a title for the Sharks.
- Jsaquella

That whole team is really under that umbrella, the critics torch Marleau as well.
edit I should say organization, not team, because they much younger nucleus now

That whole team is really under that umbrella, the critics torch Marleau as well.
edit I should say organization, not team, because they much younger nucleus now
- puckhead17

The Sharks are basically the Flyers West, moreso than the Kings...lot of teams that could've won a Stanley Cup, and always fell short for whatever reason.