Wowzers

Grossmann's end result was worse, I'm not dismissing the level of stupidity.

Unfortunately, we're living with all 3. But I'm not going to give praise to a guy I see as being average because two other guys suck
- Jsaquella

Oh man
You won't let that go

It is a bad trade, although, they are crying in Toronto about how he's not scoring enough, so ow about that.
- puckhead17

Still on pace for 30+ goals. He's got 32 goals in 86 games as a Leaf. Pretty damn good.

What % of Leafs fans would want L. Schenn back?

Still on pace for 30+ goals. He's got 32 goals in 86 games as a Leaf. Pretty damn good.

What % of Leafs fans would want L. Schenn back?
- PLindbergh31

The same ones that want Phanuef gone, fickle crowd

Grossmann's end result was worse, I'm not dismissing the level of stupidity.

Unfortunately, we're living with all 3. But I'm not going to give praise to a guy I see as being average because two other guys suck
- Jsaquella

Again, not praising him, he's not brad marsh, but he is serviceable, I don't see him as a problem over the other 2, with an offensive guy he would have to do less & I think his mistakes would be limited, we just don't have that particular guy

Oh man
You won't let that go

- puckhead17

Let what go? My entire point is that Grossmann isn't worthy of praise simply because he hasn't been as bad as Schenn or Striet.

Or is it that I maintain that a dumb play the ended up as a goal was worse than an extremely stupid play that didn't?

Again, not praising him, he's not brad marsh, but I don't see him as a problem over the other 2
- puckhead17

I see them all as problems. And others are praising Grossmann, not necessarily you. My initial comments were not directed at a single poster

Let what go? My entire point is that Grossmann isn't worthy of praise simply because he hasn't been as bad as Schenn or Striet.

Or is it that I maintain that a dumb play the ended up as a goal was worse than an extremely stupid play that didn't?
- Jsaquella

Yes, it's was worse because it went in the net, I believe your saying, you just don't like Grossman, I get it, he's slow & makes bad reads, if your GM I see you moving him before sending Streit back to the Switzerland, not agreeing with that, at least he does mostly what he's supposed to.
I'm trying to figure out what Homer & Ed see every night when Streit plays

Grossmann's end result was worse, I'm not dismissing the level of stupidity.

Unfortunately, we're living with all 3. But I'm not going to give praise to a guy I see as being average because two other guys suck
- Jsaquella

Here's my take on Grossmann's 'goal', for what it's worth...

He was trying to defend the pass from going to the open side where there were 2 Oilers roaming/waiting, and it was a bad bounce off him into the net. And it could have happened just as easily had he been standing.

I can see arguing he shouldn't drop down like that in/around the blue paint, but at the same time he was trying to prevent a pass from going across the ice on a powerplay. I have a hard time busting his chops for that particular play.

I see them all as problems. And others are praising Grossmann, not necessarily you. My initial comments were not directed at a single poster
- Jsaquella

No I understand, sometimes I agree with you over the last few years, sometimes I don't, this is a good debate, sorry, I just hate Streit so badly that I can't see much else, yes there are other problems, but he's really not worth keeping

World Junior Update (For Anyone Not Watching)

Stolarz and Team USA posted a 15 shot shutout against Team Germany. Not too much competition other than Leon Draisaitl but a shutout is a shutout.

Robert Hagg scored his first goal (and first overall point) of the tournament against Team Norway. So far the score is 6-0 Sweden. Also Capitals Prospect Andre Burakowsky scored a hat trick.

Yes, it's was worse because it went in the net, I believe your saying, you just don't like Grossman, I get it, he's slow & makes bad reads, if your GM I see you moving him before sending Streit back to the Switzerland, not agreeing with that, at least he does mostly what he's supposed to.
I'm trying to figure out what Homer & Ed see every night when Streit plays
- puckhead17

I actually do like Grossmann. My issue isn't with Grossmann himself. My issue is with people singling out Schenn & Streit repeatedly for shame and giving Grossmann a pass because he's physical and blocks shots.

Here's my take on Grossmann's 'goal', for what it's worth...

He was trying to defend the pass from going to the open side where there were 2 Oilers roaming/waiting, and it was a bad bounce off him into the net. And it could have happened just as easily had he been standing.

I can see arguing he shouldn't drop down like that in/around the blue paint, but at the same time he was trying to prevent a pass from going across the ice on a powerplay. I have a hard time busting his chops for that particular play.
- wolfhounds

I don't have an issue busting his chops. It was a bad read because he was down way before the pass was made, and the guy that the pass was going to wasn't anywhere near Grossmann. If the puck hit him, it was either going in the net or into the slot. Both are bad places for a puck to be for the Flyers.

I actually do like Grossmann. My issue isn't with Grossmann himself. My issue is with people singling out Schenn & Streit repeatedly for shame and giving Grossmann a pass because he's physical and blocks shots.
- Jsaquella

I still hold out hope for Schenn.

Streit is what he is, and you definitely catch glimpses of his offensive skills from game to game, but more often than not we're seeing his defensive deficiencies.

I think Bryz did a very good job for a goalie who had very little defensive help, and one that has never been great at shootouts. I've never had an issue with him throwing his stick, Frustration happens and Patrick Roy has done far worse. I only had an issue when he took it out on his teamates in public.

Two points is two points, and I especially don't care when the extra point ends up out west.

Vinny looks like he is still hurting out there. I hope it is nothing that last too long.

I think Bryz did a very good job for a goalie who had very little defensive help, and one that has never been great at shootouts. I've never had an issue with him throwing his stick, Frustration happens and Patrick Roy has done far worse. I only had an issue when he took it out on his teamates in public.

Two points is two points, and I especially don't care when the extra point ends up out west.
- flyler

Bryz's stick toss into the air was, imo, more of a "(frank) it" attitude as opposed to being angry. It was closer to quitting than digging in and fighting, and since the game wasn't over, his timing was quite bad and couldn't have been helpful to the rest of the team.

I still hold out hope for Schenn.

Streit is what he is, and you definitely catch glimpses of his offensive skills from game to game, but more often than not we're seeing his defensive deficiencies.
- wolfhounds

I have hope for all of them. Just saying none have played particularly well. Doesn't mean they can't possibly be better. Schenn needs to simplify his game. He starts trying to do too much and it's a tire fire.

Streit, hopefully, will adapt better to the team and system. It's not a strong hope, and I doubt he will, but I also think his sins get magnified because he's with such a limited partner.

That's really the issue with the whole defense-they're not a good mix. The pieces don't fit.

I think Bryz did a very good job for a goalie who had very little defensive help, and one that has never been great at shootouts. I've never had an issue with him throwing his stick, Frustration happens and Patrick Roy has done far worse. I only had an issue when he took it out on his teamates in public.

Two points is two points, and I especially don't care when the extra point ends up out west.
- flyler

When you've had the success Patrick Roy has had, you get a pass if you throw your stick in frustration. Breeze isn't quite there yet.

Though if it's to show up a player or players around you in front of 15,000 at the rink and many thousands more watching on TV, it's bush league regardless who does it.

I still hold out hope for Schenn.

Streit is what he is, and you definitely catch glimpses of his offensive skills from game to game, but more often than not we're seeing his defensive deficiencies.
- wolfhounds

the 'only' reason I hold out hope for schenn is because he is still young and we don't truly know what we have in him. as for the others they are all 28+ yo and we know what their ceiling is (and those ceilings are not that great when you match them up league wide rather than saying so and so is the best on the flyers i.e. the tallest midget).

Vinny looks like he is still hurting out there. I hope it is nothing that last too long.
- HockeyDog

Sorry, he made a dumb play last night as well, blind centering pass from the corner turning into a 2 on 1 going the other way.

I'm still not completely sold on him either, a full season or 2 years judgement here will be telling.

I have hope for all of them. Just saying none have played particularly well. Doesn't mean they can't possibly be better. Schenn needs to simplify his game. He starts trying to do too much and it's a tire fire.

Streit, hopefully, will adapt better to the team and system. It's not a strong hope, and I doubt he will, but I also think his sins get magnified because he's with such a limited partner.

That's really the issue with the whole defense-they're not a good mix. The pieces don't fit.
- Jsaquella

I don't have any hope for Streit, but I guess we have no choice

I have hope for all of them. Just saying none have played particularly well. Doesn't mean they can't possibly be better. Schenn needs to simplify his game. He starts trying to do too much and it's a tire fire.

Streit, hopefully, will adapt better to the team and system. It's not a strong hope, and I doubt he will, but I also think his sins get magnified because he's with such a limited partner.

That's really the issue with the whole defense-they're not a good mix. The pieces don't fit.
- Jsaquella

Agreed.

The Flyers D is like beer without hops: it's carbonated, the color is a clear golden, and the alcohol is still there, but a key ingredient is missing, and that ingredient impacts both taste and smell.

The Flyers have a solid defensive core to build around, but they definitely need to swap a couple players in and out.

the 'only' reason I hold out hope for schenn is because he is still young and we don't truly know what we have in him. as for the others they are all 28+ yo and we know what their ceiling is (and those ceilings are not that great when you match them up league wide rather than saying so and so is the best on the flyers i.e. the tallest midget).
- moylander

yeah that's my hope with schenn

as its been said in here already, he was legit solid in the short season when paired with timonen.

Sorry, he made a dumb play last night as well, blind centering pass from the corner turning into a 2 on 1 going the other way.

I'm still not completely sold on him either, a full season or 2 years judgement here will be telling.
- puckhead17

He looked slow all game and didn't seem to any intentions to get in the dirty areas.