And they are getting production on 5 on 5 too. And when they are playing 5 on 5 as a unit, they actually look good as a line. That wasn't happening before. Raffl's speed and puck moving, opens the ice more then Hartnell does.
- youarewrong

Hartnell only opens up ice when he makes a cocktail.

G & V.
- wolfhounds

Well a Power Play is only two minutes long to make work. Is it safe to say Hartnell plays with less talented players at even strength and gets PP time, while Raffl gets to play with more talented players each time he plays 5 on 5?

Hartnell only opens up ice when he makes a cocktail.
- Moose_15

I'll be honest. Hartnell is a beast at how fast he can get up after he's fallen down. Should teach a class on it.

Well a Power Play is only two minutes long to make work. Is it safe to say Hartnell plays with less talented players at even strength and gets PP time, while Raffl gets to play with more talented players each time he plays 5 on 5?
- Schenn2shine

That's correct...


and a fact Jack!

Well a Power Play is only two minutes long to make work. Is it safe to say Hartnell plays with less talented players at even strength and gets PP time, while Raffl gets to play with more talented players each time he plays 5 on 5?
- Schenn2shine

Can you show me on any rule book that says your best players all have to play on the same line?

Why doesn't Pittsburgh put a line of Malkin-Crosby-Neal out there? Because sometimes its about chemistry. Raffl just has chemistry with those guys. If Raffl didn't score another point the rest of the time this year, but that line continues to look as good as it has... I'm keeping him there.

Well a Power Play is only two minutes long to make work. Is it safe to say Hartnell plays with less talented players at even strength and gets PP time, while Raffl gets to play with more talented players each time he plays 5 on 5?
- Schenn2shine

If executed properly, a PP is almost all attack time. I don't think that can be understated just because it's only 2 minutes long. Further, there are usually multiple PPs per team per game.

Hartnell had last year and the beginning of this season to play on the top line. He wasn't getting it done. It's not as if he wasn't given the chance.

But as for your question, yes, Hartnell is playing with less talented players (Schenn & Simmonds compared to G&V) than Raffl.

And?

And they are getting production on 5 on 5 too. And when they are playing 5 on 5 as a unit, they actually look good as a line. That wasn't happening before. Raffl's speed and puck moving, opens the ice more then Hartnell does.
- youarewrong

Most of the team had slow starts, including Hartnell sitting with a rib injury after the phoenix game. Are you trying to tell me a world class player like Giroux wouldn't have picked with Raffl? Giroux and Voracek did produce prior to Raffl being added to their line. In fact the longest point streak we've had in the standing came in November starting with the Oilers game to brutal Pathers game, Rafl wasn't even in the line up.

If executed properly, a PP is almost all attack time. I don't think that can be understated just because it's only 2 minutes long. Further, there are usually multiple PPs per team per game.

Hartnell had last year and the beginning of this season to play on the top line. He wasn't getting it done. It's not as if he wasn't given the chance.

But as for your question, yes, Hartnell is playing with less talented players (Schenn & Simmonds compared to G&V) than Raffl.

And?
- wolfhounds

Our PP is our bread and butter. we don't beat the Oilers on Saturday without it.

Can you show me on any rule book that says your best players all have to play on the same line?

Why doesn't Pittsburgh put a line of Malkin-Crosby-Neal out there? Because sometimes its about chemistry. Raffl just has chemistry with those guys. If Raffl didn't score another point the rest of the time this year, but that line continues to look as good as it has... I'm keeping him there.
- youarewrong

I have no idea where you are going with this because in my opinion our best players are Giroux and Lecavalier. At this point you're grasping at straws, I never said our best players had to play together.

Most of the team had slow starts, including Hartnell sitting with a rib injury after the phoenix game. Are you trying to tell me a world class player like Giroux wouldn't have picked with Raffl? Giroux and Voracek did produce prior to Raffl being added to their line. In fact the longest point streak we've had in the standing came in November starting with the Oilers game to brutal Pathers game, Rafl wasn't even in the line up.
- Schenn2shine

Now your arguments are becoming logical fallacies.

G & V were not doing all that great prior to that loss in Florida. I mean, why do you think Hartnell was bumped from the top line to begin with? And do you think Berube is missing something in all his time with the team that you are seeing?

Now your arguments are becoming logical fallacies.
- wolfhounds

Can we all just agree that the team didn't start winning until Downie came back and that he should be the MVP and given an 8 year NTC/NMC so they'll keep winning for another 8 years?

Now your arguments are becoming logical fallacies.
- wolfhounds

Is this your response to my argument?

Now your arguments are becoming logical fallacies.
- wolfhounds

Are you calling S2S a liar. I think you are, I think you are calling him a liar!!!!

Can we all just agree that the team didn't start winning until Downie came back and that he should be the MVP and given an 8 year NTC/NMC so they'll keep winning for another 8 years?
- Moose_15

I think the Downie trade brought balance to the line up and now he's sadly on the f2f ourth line.

Our PP is our bread and butter. we don't beat the Oilers on Saturday without it.
- Schenn2shine

Ok. But wouldn't you also like to have lines that score on even strength? I know I would, and I don't care who it is so long as it's getting done.

Are you calling S2S a liar. I think you are, I think you are calling him a liar!!!!


- mayorofangrytown

Oh Snap. He just went there.

Can we all just agree that the team didn't start winning until Downie came back and that he should be the MVP and given an 8 year NTC/NMC so they'll keep winning for another 8 years?
- Moose_15

I can't argue with your logic mister LeFrog

Our PP is our bread and butter. we don't beat the Oilers on Saturday without it.
- Schenn2shine

As you learned last season you cant lean on your PP to win. You need to score 5 on 5. And Raffl has been a better linemate for Giroux and Voracek then ANYONE over the last 2 seasons.

Now I'm not saying Raffl is suddenly a top notch NHL player, because I'm not. But for some reason, whatever he does, makes Giroux and Voracek look amazing. You know what it reminds me of.... Ville Lieno with Briere and Hartnell.

Is this your response to my argument?
- Schenn2shine

I added to it.

The fact of the matter is, G & V "producing" and the point streak in November have little to do with one another because G & V were not producing all that much during that time frame.

I think the Downie trade brought balance to the line up and now he's sadly on the f2f ourth line.
- Schenn2shine

the only solution for an early season mess:

Can we all just agree that the team didn't start winning until Downie came back and that he should be the MVP and given an 8 year NTC/NMC so they'll keep winning for another 8 years?
- Moose_15

8 years at 1 million. Deal.

As you learned last season you cant lean on your PP to win. You need to score 5 on 5. And Raffl has been a better linemate for Giroux and Voracek then ANYONE over the last 2 seasons.

Now I'm not saying Raffl is suddenly a top notch NHL player, because I'm not. But for some reason, whatever he does, makes Giroux and Voracek look amazing. You know what it reminds me of.... Ville Lieno with Briere and Hartnell.
- youarewrong

What I don't get is why anyone would want to mess with the 1 line that's getting it done to try to fix the other 3 that aren't. That makes no sense. There are 9 other players to shuffle around, leave the top 3 alone for the time being.

Ok. But wouldn't you also like to have lines that score on even strength? I know I would, and I don't care who it is so long as it's getting done.
- wolfhounds

I don't think we have any consistency in our lines. We didn't score a single even strength goal against the Edmonton Oilers on Saturday. THE EDMONTON OILERS! I think Downie needs to get back with Couturier and Read on that third line. I think Lecavalier needs to play center s nd have a much larger role created for him. I think the Schenn, Simmonds and Hartnell needs break up completely.

the only solution for an early season mess:


- Moose_15

That's the old Downie. We got Downie HE With color boost.

I can't argue with your logic mister LeFrog
- mayorofangrytown

Faites-le fini, Monsieur Holmgren.