Now, if there were a correlation between the Flyers overall play in the first period and Giroux playing less, then it would be interesting.
- PhillySportsGuy

You could also go even deeper.. Giroux's icetime average in win vs losses compared to ppg average in wins vs losses.

OR

Giroux's 5v5 toi avg compared to his 5v5 ppg average.

Honestly, I'd go with these when everyone is healthy

19-28-93
10/40-40/10-17
24-14-9
12-76-18

I know Hartnell struggled with Giroux & Voracek earlier, but he's playing much better now. He's doing the dirty work he needs to be a productive player. A big part of his issues last season and early this one were born from him NOT doing that kind of stuff.

He needs to be a bastard out there, wreaking havoc and causing mayhem. He's doing that now. He was not before.
- Jsaquella

I still think Vinny needs to center the 2nd line, but they're playing well together now, so I wouldn't break them up.

I could see just swapping Downey and Raffl, for now. Although, Raffl has looked good with Giroux and Voracek. Not sure you want to mess with that either.

You could also go even deeper.. Giroux's icetime average in win vs losses compared to ppg average in wins vs losses.

OR

Giroux's 5v5 toi avg compared to his 5v5 ppg average.
- jak521

No! That's what real writers would do.

I definitely want to keep Adam Hall around and on some iteration of that 4th line. Ideally, someone with some speed (miss you, Eric Wellwood) would be on that line, as well.
- johndewar

Wellwood would be great on this roster.

Downey on first line?
- PhillySportsGuy

I wouldn't mind trying out Downie on the first line. He's a Hartnell type player (not knocking Hartnell with what follows) who skates better and is a better passer (Hartnell superior shooter), and also isn't a liability on D. Downie did well on the first line with Stamkos and St. Louis in TB (of course, that was before knee surgery). And having a guy like that on line one could cause some havoc or get some guys off their game (kinda like what Keith Jones used to do with Lindros/LeClair). Of course, the concern there is that with extended minutes--would Downie become more prone to taking penalties.

Right now, I like the composition of the second line--Hartnell has woken up playing with Simmonds and B. Schenn. And, though I prefer Downie with Read and Couturier--I cannot see Vinny the Cavalier moving to fourth line.

Maybe Vinny can go on Giroux's wing with Voracek.

A VandeVelde / Hall / Raffl 4th line could work well--especially with the way Rinaldo's regressed.

Wellwood would be great on this roster.
- Jsaquella

Now here's a thought; for next season, if they did a complete 4th line overhaul, how would you guys feel about a Wellwood - Laughton - McGinn/Holmstrom 4th line? You've got speed, 2-way play, and some willingness to crash/bang/fight with some offensive upside. However, that's 3 young players with (I'm guessing) less than 80 games of combined NHL play. Would you trust that line? Would you like it as a 4th line?

I wouldn't mind trying out Downie on the first line. He's a Hartnell type player (not knocking Hartnell with what follows) who skates better and is a better passer (Hartnell superior shooter), and also isn't a liability on D. Downie did well on the first line with Stamkos and St. Louis in TB (of course, that was before knee surgery). And having a guy like that on line one could cause some havoc or get some guys off their game (kinda like what Keith Jones used to do with Lindros/LeClair). Of course, the concern there is that with extended minutes--would Downie become more prone to taking penalties.

Right now, I like the composition of the second line--Hartnell has woken up playing with Simmonds and B. Schenn. And, though I prefer Downie with Read and Couturier--I cannot see Vinny the Cavalier moving to fourth line.

Maybe Vinny can go on Giroux's wing with Voracek.

A VandeVelde / Hall / Raffl 4th line could work well--especially with the way Rinaldo's regressed.
- Moose_15

I have a feeling the 19-10-17 line isn't going to stay hot for very long. I like them all, but I don't see them as a good mesh long term. They all have their problems defensively and they all go into lengthy slumps. I'd like to see them ride out this hot streak then move Bunny to the 2nd line center again.

I still think Vinny needs to center the 2nd line, but they're playing well together now, so I wouldn't break them up.

I could see just swapping Downey and Raffl, for now. Although, Raffl has looked good with Giroux and Voracek. Not sure you want to mess with that either.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm just trying to get the best mix for as many players as possible.

Right now, the biggest issue up front has been Lecavalier's performance and where he fits. He's been like a lead weight on Couturier's line, and doesn't fit well with Giroux and Voracek.

I like B. Schenn at center, but also realize Vinny is more likely to be effective in the middle than on the LW.

I'd also be open to trying Downie or Read with Giroux & Voracek, or even Raffl again. I just think that all factors included, the lines I posted are the best fit for what they have on hand.

Wellwood would be great on this roster.
- Jsaquella

I think about that all the time. I never understood why the Flyers kept sending him down. I thought he was a good 4th line player who provided speed on a team that needs speed.

Akeson is definitely a top-6 player. Think a poor man's Briere on the wing. Sadly, he probably has no future here, but may be able to catch on with a Nashville-type team that needs scoring help.
- jmatchett383

I look at Akeson and his rock-solid history of production and I think he's got to be a pretty good NHL player somewhere down the road... I agree that it'll probably be for another team, like how Clarke MacArthur, Rich Peverley and Kris Versteeg really didn't get a shot with their initial teams, but went on to be pretty handy (and handsy) players.

Now here's a thought; for next season, if they did a complete 4th line overhaul, how would you guys feel about a Wellwood - Laughton - McGinn/Holmstrom 4th line? You've got speed, 2-way play, and some willingness to crash/bang/fight with some offensive upside. However, that's 3 young players with (I'm guessing) less than 80 games of combined NHL play. Would you trust that line? Would you like it as a 4th line?
- jmatchett383

I think either Schenn or Laughton will be the price paid to add a defenseman.

I think about that all the time. I never understood why the Flyers kept sending him down. I thought he was a good 4th line player who provided speed on a team that needs speed.
- PhillySportsGuy

No idea. I haven't heard anything lately on his recovery. Last I heard he wasn't even sure if he'd play again.

I'm just trying to get the best mix for as many players as possible.

Right now, the biggest issue up front has been Lecavalier's performance and where he fits. He's been like a lead weight on Couturier's line, and doesn't fit well with Giroux and Voracek.

I like B. Schenn at center, but also realize Vinny is more likely to be effective in the middle than on the LW.

I'd also be open to trying Downie or Read with Giroux & Voracek, or even Raffl again. I just think that all factors included, the lines I posted are the best fit for what they have on hand.
- Jsaquella

Things fluctuate throughout the season. Earlier in the season, we needed guys to play with Vinny in order to get that extra boost. Now, we are having trouble finding a spot for Vinny. I see him being the 2nd line center again. I see Hartnell moving back up to the top line and Downie moving back to his third line spot. Raffl would go to the 4th line.

I look at Akeson and his rock-solid history of production and I think he's got to be a pretty good NHL player somewhere down the road... I agree that it'll probably be for another team, like how Clarke MacArthur, Rich Peverley and Kris Versteeg really didn't get a shot with their initial teams, but went on to be pretty handy (and handsy) players.
- Tomahawk

I was thinking Akeson was going to have to go to a bad team and get minutes that way. I just don't think he fits on this roster, as currently constituted.

Things fluctuate throughout the season. Earlier in the season, we needed guys to play with Vinny in order to get that extra boost. Now, we are having trouble finding a spot for Vinny. I see him being the 2nd line center again. I see Hartnell moving back up to the top line and Downie moving back to his third line spot. Raffl would go to the 4th line.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yep, I agree. It's not that I want hartnell on the top line, but if he keeps playing like he has of late, it's the best fit

I was thinking Akeson was going to have to go to a bad team and get minutes that way. I just don't think he fits on this roster, as currently constituted.
- johndewar

hopefully.. and this is a tough thing to say... but hopefully when an injury to a top 6 guys happens for the longterm.. he steps in and shines enough to gets us a lil something something in return.

I look at Akeson and his rock-solid history of production and I think he's got to be a pretty good NHL player somewhere down the road... I agree that it'll probably be for another team, like how Clarke MacArthur, Rich Peverley and Kris Versteeg really didn't get a shot with their initial teams, but went on to be pretty handy (and handsy) players.
- Tomahawk

I've never been a big fan of him. He needs to score a lot to offset several deficiencies. I can see him scoring a lot on a bad team and people getting all worked up. "How could we let this guy go!?!?!"

I don't like one-way players. Winning playoff teams are made up of several two-way players.

I look at Akeson and his rock-solid history of production and I think he's got to be a pretty good NHL player somewhere down the road... I agree that it'll probably be for another team, like how Clarke MacArthur, Rich Peverley and Kris Versteeg really didn't get a shot with their initial teams, but went on to be pretty handy (and handsy) players.
- Tomahawk

He produced at a crazy pace as an OHL overager and has been a good offensive player otherwise. Not sure how it would translate to the NHL (probably a 2nd line winger), but you're sacrificing a lot of foot speed and defensive play, and I don't know if his offense will offset that at the NHL level. And sadly, with this team, I doubt he'll get the chance to show it here. So I don't know if I's say he's "got to be a pretty good NHL player," but he could probably be at least a tweener for some of the lower scoring teams.

Akeson + 2nd for Shea Weber

Yep, I agree. It's not that I want hartnell on the top line, but if he keeps playing like he has of late, it's the best fit
- Jsaquella

Yea. I don't want to say it's fool's gold right now, but I don't see Raffl being the long term solution on the top line and I don't see the 2nd line, as presently constructed, being the long term solution.

The only worry about putting Hartnell back on the top line is that they will all revert back to their slump and lose confidence. Then, who knows how long it will take to get it back.

He produced at a crazy pace as an OHL overager and has been a good offensive player otherwise. Not sure how it would translate to the NHL (probably a 2nd line winger), but you're sacrificing a lot of foot speed and defensive play, and I don't know if his offense will offset that at the NHL level. And sadly, with this team, I doubt he'll get the chance to show it here. So I don't know if I's say he's "got to be a pretty good NHL player," but he could probably be at least a tweener for some of the lower scoring teams.

Akeson + 2nd for Shea Weber
- jmatchett383

Nashville would be a good spot for him to get a shot, too. But if I'm trading him & a 2nd, I want Weber AND Josi.

I was thinking Akeson was going to have to go to a bad team and get minutes that way. I just don't think he fits on this roster, as currently constituted.
- johndewar

He's just going to need some good fortune... he's not exactly a set and forget kind of player that coaches and GMs love calling up and his deficiencies make it so easy to dismiss him as a player overall... but the kid can rack up points, and he can think the game at a high level... it would be a pity to see him go on to be a 40-50+ point NHL forward for another club.

Yea. I don't want to say it's fool's gold right now, but I don't see Raffl being the long term solution on the top line and I don't see the 2nd line, as presently constructed, being the long term solution.

The only worry about putting Hartnell back on the top line is that they will all revert back to their slump and lose confidence. Then, who knows how long it will take to get it back.
- PhillySportsGuy

Definite concern. Hartnell can't forget what his game is. He starts thinking he's Mike Bossy and forgets he's got to be like Rick Tocchet, and get his nose dirty and put his ass in the goalie's face.

I have questions about Raffl's long term sustainability as a top line winger. But the kid's definitely a top 9 NHLer.

Nashville would be a good spot for him to get a shot, too. But if I'm trading him & a 2nd, I want Weber AND Josi.
- Jsaquella

If you had the pick of Weber or Jones, who would you take? Take everything into account. Age, salary, etc...

Nashville would be a good spot for him to get a shot, too. But if I'm trading him & a 2nd, I want Weber AND Josi.
- Jsaquella

We'd probably have to add a 6th to get both of them.

He produced at a crazy pace as an OHL overager and has been a good offensive player otherwise. Not sure how it would translate to the NHL (probably a 2nd line winger), but you're sacrificing a lot of foot speed and defensive play, and I don't know if his offense will offset that at the NHL level. And sadly, with this team, I doubt he'll get the chance to show it here. So I don't know if I's say he's "got to be a pretty good NHL player," but he could probably be at least a tweener for some of the lower scoring teams.

Akeson + 2nd for Shea Weber
- jmatchett383

Just a friendly reminder--Peter White was an AHL stud, too.

Landing a player like Shea Weber will need the same B. Schenn/Couturier/pick package.