There is a huge correlation between B Schenn suddenly looking very good and Couturier's line looking very bad.

One common denominator.
- bradleyc4

VL?

Brayden has been great lately. Very hard on him sometimes, but also forget he's still just 22. I just wish they would bump Vinny in the lineup. I know Raffl has been good on the top line, but I think he'd work with Coots. I'd prefer to get Vinny going somehow.

Grossmann pass was a beauty, and his only his second multi-point game ever? Odd because he only played 15 min last night. Luke got more minutes the past few games and I think he's earned them.
- The_Universe

Schenn Bros have both been good lately. Luke is doing it with Mez tied to his leg, which is all the more impressive.

You still have to think about it. If he can fetch a young mobile dman with upside.

Good game by the boys. Cooter and vinny look completely ineffective with each other. Cooter needs read back in a big way
- Just5

With Schenn-Hartnell-Simmonds doing well, do they try Vinny on wing with G + Jake soon? Dare I say it, but Vinny is starting to look like odd man out on top 9 when Read gets back?

VL?
- funmaster18

He's dragging down everyone he plays with.

I suggested last night that the flyers may think about going with these line combos when read gets back.

Voracek-G-Raffl
Simmer_Schenn-Harts
Read-Vinny-Downie
Hall-Coots-Rinaldo

I know coots was awesome on the 3rd line but we really need to get Vinny firing. Plus that makes a good shutdown 4th line. I am not saying that Coots belongs on 4th line but I think it makes more sense then anyone else on 4th line
- AGL_91

I'd put Coots in the wing before I move him to the 4th line. He was our best forward for a large segment of the season.

With Schenn-Hartnell-Simmonds doing well, do they try Vinny on wing with G + Jake soon? Dare I say it, but Vinny is starting to look like odd man out on top 9 when Read gets back?
- bgratch

I think Berube had Vinny up with the G and Jake last night for a couple of shifts.

With Schenn-Hartnell-Simmonds doing well, do they try Vinny on wing with G + Jake soon? Dare I say it, but Vinny is starting to look like odd man out on top 9 when Read gets back?
- bgratch

Raffl has played well with G and Voracek. His speed and defensive play really help them. There are times when Raffl's speed prevents odd man rushes and makes it a 3v3 rush. I don't want to see him moved from the top line yet.

The problem is the Flyers have 4 centers who aren't comfortable playing the wing.

I think Berube had Vinny up with the G and Jake last night for a couple of shifts.
- johndewar

He did at the end of the 2nd period.

I'd put Coots in the wing before I move him to the 4th line. He was our best forward for a large segment of the season.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree he was are best player, esp during the winning streak. However he just seems a little lost since Read left and/or VL joined him. I would just like to see them put vinny in his spot for a game or two and see what happens. I still think the next time we lose badly or two games iin a row we see a complete line up shuffle. I see it going back to the way it was with Harts on 1st line and Raffl on 4th.

I agree he was are best player, esp during the winning streak. However he just seems a little lost since Read left and/or VL joined him. I would just like to see them put vinny in his spot for a game or two and see what happens. I still think the next time we lose badly or two games iin a row we see a complete line up shuffle. I see it going back to the way it was with Harts on 1st line and Raffl on 4th.
- AGL_91

I agree about the inevitable changes. I just don't want to see Couturier's minutes cut. I would rather see them move Vinny to center and Couturier to wing. I don't want to see Couturier on the 4th line again. He's developing an offensive game. I don't want him to be put in a position where just breaking even every shift is a win.

He's dragging down everyone he plays with.
- bradleyc4

I'm convinced it's because he's playing wing

Vincent Lecavalier -11
Zac Rinaldo -13

He's dragging down everyone he plays with.
- bradleyc4

Huh. You don't attribute any of that to the streakiness of the players he's played with most this season? Schenn and Simmonds...those guys are as streaky as they come.

Though make no mistake: Black holes are what they are. But Couturier's line went cold even before Lecavalier joined the line -- the second after Steve Downie took that elbow to the jaw against the Canadiens, to be precise.

But if Lecavalier's black-holing the forwards, then it'll definitely show up if/when Read comes back, if they stay healthy.

I'd put Coots in the wing before I move him to the 4th line. He was our best forward for a large segment of the season.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yea there's no way they put him on a line with Rinaldo and Hall. I think the best thing to do is put Vinny on the top line. Raffl-Coots-Downie probably works pretty well. When Read is ready, who knows? Guess Raffl to 4th line.

Huh. You don't attribute any of that to the streakiness of the players he's played with most this season? Schenn and Simmonds...those guys are as streaky as they come.

Though make no mistake: Black holes are what they are. But Couturier's line went cold even before Lecavalier joined the line -- the second after Steve Downie took that elbow to the jaw against the Canadiens, to be precise.

But if Lecavalier's black-holing the forwards, then it'll definitely show up if/when Read comes back, if they stay healthy.
- AllInForFlyers

Nope.

He was doing it Tampa, too.

Vincent Lecavalier -11
Zac Rinaldo -13
- Pixote Andolini

I don't put much, if any, stock in plus/minus, but for Zac Rinaldo to be -13 while averaging around 7 minutes a night...ugh.

That's brutal, no matter how anyone tries to slice that.

I don't put much, if any, stock in plus/minus, but for Zac Rinaldo to be -13 while averaging around 7 minutes a night...ugh.

That's brutal, no matter how anyone tries to slice that.
- AllInForFlyers

It is. The 4th line has been pretty awful this year. They need a little skill there. It seems like the entire line is in survival mode every time they take a shift.

I agree about the inevitable changes. I just don't want to see Couturier's minutes cut. I would rather see them move Vinny to center and Couturier to wing. I don't want to see Couturier on the 4th line again. He's developing an offensive game. I don't want him to be put in a position where just breaking even every shift is a win.
- PhillySportsGuy

Flyers are in a tough spot number wise (in a good way) and it is clear that no one will get traded. The options on the fourth line for me is Raffl, Downie, Coots. Everyone else has proven themselves or is a waste of skill on the 4th. I know Raffl has brought out the best of G ans Voracek which makes that much harder

Nope.

He was doing it Tampa, too.
- bradleyc4

OK. I don't dispute that it wasn't working in Tampa, and anybody with eyes can see that Downie-Couturier-Lecavalier isn't working...that's going to be tough, because while I'm not necessarily sold on Raffl-Giroux-Voracek and Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds long-term, there's absolutely no denying that short-term, the points are coming.

Flyers are in a tough spot number wise (in a good way) and it is clear that no one will get traded. The options on the fourth line for me is Raffl, Downie, Coots. Everyone else has proven themselves or is a waste of skill on the 4th. I know Raffl has brought out the best of G ans Voracek which makes that much harder
- AGL_91

I just hate how the team needs to accommodate veteran players. They should understand that when certain lines find a groove, they should take a backseat and wait their turn. It's obvious that Raffl has good chemistry with G and Jake, the Schenn line is clinking and Coots works well with Downie and Read. If Vinny were a 2nd year forward making $850,000, he would be centering the 4th line right now.

OK. I don't dispute that it wasn't working in Tampa, and anybody with eyes can see that Downie-Couturier-Lecavalier isn't working...that's going to be tough, because while I'm not necessarily sold on Raffl-Giroux-Voracek and Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds long-term, there's absolutely no denying that short-term, the points are coming.
- AllInForFlyers

Yep, I just think there's nine top-9 forwards that are better than VL.

And yes, against all odds, that 19-10-17 line is working. Hartnell has been the Flyers best possession forward this year and Schenn no longer has the stigma of 40 holding him back. I still think they'd be better served with a more creative guy on the right side, but short-term, like you said, it's producing.

Yep, I just think there's nine top-9 forwards that are better than VL.

And yes, against all odds, that 19-10-17 line is working. Hartnell has been the Flyers best possession forward this year and Schenn no longer has the stigma of 40 holding him back. I still think they'd be better served with a more creative guy on the right side, but short-term, like you said, it's producing.
- bradleyc4

I don't think Vinny is dead weight. He played well earlier this year when no one else was playing well. He's coming off an injury and is playing out of position. This is the same problem they had with Briere. He wasn't good on the wing, but wasn't one of the 3 best centers on the team.

I don't think the 19-10-17 line is the answer. They are hot right now, but all three of those guys are very streaky. There will come a time when Vinny will assume 2nd line center again. I guarantee it.

I don't think Vinny is dead weight. He played well earlier this year when no one else was playing well. He's coming off an injury and is playing out of position. This is the same problem they had with Briere. He wasn't good on the wing, but wasn't one of the 3 best centers on the team.

I don't think the 19-10-17 line is the answer. They are hot right now, but all three of those guys are very streaky. There will come a time when Vinny will assume 2nd line center again. I guarantee it.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think it comes back to the Briere level of "playing well." He was playing poorly overall, but the goals sugar-coated it.

I don't think Vinny is dead weight. He played well earlier this year when no one else was playing well. He's coming off an injury and is playing out of position. This is the same problem they had with Briere. He wasn't good on the wing, but wasn't one of the 3 best centers on the team.

I don't think the 19-10-17 line is the answer. They are hot right now, but all three of those guys are very streaky. There will come a time when Vinny will assume 2nd line center again. I guarantee it.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't think Berube has been shy, so far, in breaking up things once they stop producing results, so this is a very likely scenario.

Yep, I just think there's nine top-9 forwards that are better than VL.

And yes, against all odds, that 19-10-17 line is working. Hartnell has been the Flyers best possession forward this year and Schenn no longer has the stigma of 40 holding him back. I still think they'd be better served with a more creative guy on the right side, but short-term, like you said, it's producing.
- bradleyc4

And really, that's all I care about.

I respect Lecavalier a great deal, and I would like for him to play well. But this team can't afford non-production, from anyone.

I just want this team to win. Production matters. The Flyers need to win games to solidify a playoff spot, and that's the only thing that matters to me.