I think those Pens fans who think Letang is expendable are dead wrong.
- Marc D

They're getting very strong play out of Niskanen and Maata. One is a rookie and the other is extremely inconsistent. They also have an injury prone pairing in Martin and Orpik. I would definitely keep Letang for now if I were them.

I'm all for doing something like that.

I remember at the time the Flyers picked up Grossmann and another trade deadline defenseman who never panned out Oduya was also available.
They felt there was a bigger need for size then mobility I guess but in retrospect getting someone like Oduya would have been better.
- Marc D

I would certainly advocate getting the best player possible, but I'm not even certain that a Ryan Suter-level player is the only kind of player who can help the Flyers.

You can see how different they look when a defenseman skates the puck out of the zone, does a zone entry -- the Flyers are more disciplined defensively than we give them credit for, at times. They cover for themselves at a high level.

But whenever the defensemen skate with the puck, because they do stay in their lanes pretty consistently...Mez, Coburn, Streit, even Grossmann on that OT winner against New Jersey last week...when even Gus is in the lineup, moving the puck and retrieving the puck, they look different.

And Gus is a 6/7 defenseman.

If they even got somebody like...I don't know...I can't think of a name at the moment, but just a rock-solid No. 5 type who can skate, they would look so different.

At the time, the defense was Timo, Coburn, Carle, MAB and Gus. They did need size.
- PhillySportsGuy

Who was the other guy they picked up that got hurt and never did anything?
Kuba? I forget now.

Letting Carle get to UFA and leaving screwed up the mix on the back line.

The Schenn for JvR trade seemed to worsen the mix rather then help it, although
Luke has been showing more of an offensive side to his game lately which is great.

Grossmann got his market value to pre-empt UFA status; no more and no less. With the hugely inflated prices on veteran defensemen, it was a decent deal on both sides.
- bmeltzer

It's the timing that bothers me... with tagging space limited, which player is more likely to see his value shoot up on the open market, Carle or Grossmann? The answer is obviously Carle, especially the way we saw Wideman's deal change the calculus completely. So why did Grossmann get taken care of first?

Holmgren has done a very poor job building the Flyers blueline. One that should cost him his job. He's had more than ample time to come up with a solution since Pronger went down.

You didn't even mention throwing picks away for the rotting coprse of Pavel Kubina.
- PLindbergh31

The problem with the Pronger injury is that he lost a great player and all that went along with the trade. 2 first round picks, a young, top 4 defenseman and Lupul.

I don't like the Streit signing, but like I said earlier, the Flyers take on a lot of risk. Too much risk for my liking. That's why the poop hits the fan when a major injury happens.

I would certainly advocate getting the best player possible, but I'm not even certain that a Ryan Suter-level player is the only kind of player who can help the Flyers.

You can see how different they look when a defenseman skates the puck out of the zone, does a zone entry -- the Flyers are more disciplined defensively than we give them credit for, at times. They cover for themselves at a high level.

But whenever the defensemen skate with the puck, because they do stay in their lanes pretty consistently...Mez, Coburn, Streit, even Grossmann on that OT winner against New Jersey last week...when even Gus is in the lineup, moving the puck and retrieving the puck, they look different.

And Gus is a 6/7 defenseman.

If they even got somebody like...I don't know...I can't think of a name at the moment, but just a rock-solid No. 5 type who can skate, they would look so different.
- AllInForFlyers

Gardiner and Del zotto would be some names to look at for that role I guess.
Maybe the trade price is still too high, but they have been talked about moving.

Who was the other guy they picked up that got hurt and never did anything?
Kuba? I forget now.

Letting Carle get to UFA and leaving screwed up the mix on the back line.

The Schenn for JvR trade seemed to worsen the mix rather then help it, although
Luke has been showing more of an offensive side to his game lately which is great.
- Marc D

Kubina.

That was another risk they took. Letting Jagr and Carle go in order to go after the big fish. It was rumored that Suter and Parise wanted to be together. The Flyers knew they couldn't afford both. They should have stayed away and waited for Weber to be an UFA the next year.

Schenn isn't terrible, but I think we were all hoping for a better player when we gave up JVR. I was hoping JVR+ for a much more finished product.

If they even got somebody like...I don't know...I can't think of a name at the moment, but just a rock-solid No. 5 type who can skate, they would look so different.
- AllInForFlyers

Grant Clitsome: great skater, mature, can move the puck, can play both ends, completely unheralded, can play PK and PP, WPG is desperate.

It's the timing that bothers me... with tagging space limited, which player is more likely to see his value shoot up on the open market, Carle or Grossmann? The answer is obviously Carle, especially the way we saw Wideman's deal change the calculus completely. So why did Grossmann get taken care of first?
- Tomahawk

That all stemmed from the absolute-and-total physical beating they took from the Bruins in 2011. Pronger getting hurt made them horrified when they looked at the lack of size they had on the blueline, in 2012.

It's the timing that bothers me... with tagging space limited, which player is more likely to see his value shoot up on the open market, Carle or Grossmann? The answer is obviously Carle, especially the way we saw Wideman's deal change the calculus completely. So why did Grossmann get taken care of first?
- Tomahawk

IIRC Grossmann right after they got him had a few monster games
Against the penguins he was throwing his body on Malkin and looked terrific.
The Flyers re upped him after a few of those kind of games.

Gardiner and Del zotto would be some names to look at for that role I guess.
Maybe the trade price is still too high, but they have been talked about moving.
- Marc D

I like both as buy low candidates. I don't think Del Zotto would be dealt within the division and I don't think the Leafs are going to give Gardiner away for a modest return. Leaf prospects are all Gretzky until they're 25.

That all stemmed from the absolute-and-total physical beating they took from the Bruins in 2011. Pronger getting hurt made them horrified when they looked at the lack of size they had on the blueline, in 2012.
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah, trying to avenge last season's playoff defeat 9-months later... definitely the Flyers' MO.

The problem with the Pronger injury is that he lost a great player and all that went along with the trade. 2 first round picks, a young, top 4 defenseman and Lupul.

I don't like the Streit signing, but like I said earlier, the Flyers take on a lot of risk. Too much risk for my liking. That's why the poop hits the fan when a major injury happens.
- PhillySportsGuy

Flyers had two big trade chips that they moved. Carter and Richards. When those trades were made, Pronger hadn't been injured yet, but he was advancing in age. The return the Flyers got for those players were fair, but perhaps the blueline could have been addressed then.

Grant Clitsome: great skater, mature, can move the puck, can play both ends, completely unheralded, can play PK and PP, WPG is desperate.
- Tomahawk

What do you think of Wiercoch in Ottawa?
Seems to have fallen out of favor, has a big shot.

IIRC Grossmann right after they got him had a few monster games
Against the penguins he was throwing his body on Malkin and looked terrific.
The Flyers re upped him after a few of those kind of games.
- Marc D

Grossmann is signed to a fair deal. Guys who can play in the top 4 get massive deals. $3.5M is a bargain. Coburns deal is even looking pretty good.

Grant Clitsome: great skater, mature, can move the puck, can play both ends, completely unheralded, can play PK and PP, WPG is desperate.
- Tomahawk

Exactly -- somebody like that. It could absolutely be a guy who we've never seen a lot of, but who thinks the game well enough and can skate.

If they can just improve the puck retrieval alone, so they don't get crushed by disciplined forechecks...it doesn't have to be Ryan Suter.

It just has to be somebody who can move with the puck, with the ability to think the game at an NHL average-level.

Holmgren has done a very poor job building the Flyers blueline. One that should cost him his job. He's had more than ample time to come up with a solution since Pronger went down.

You didn't even mention throwing picks away for the rotting coprse of Pavel Kubina.
- PLindbergh31

The solution for replacing Pronger was to sign Weber to a massive RFA offer sheet and to outbid every other team for Suter as a UFA.

Now, Suter wasn't coming here no matter what. So that was a fruitless avenue.

The Weber offer sheet was a poison pill to Nashville that they swallowed anyway, as the owners had to pay from their personal wealth to retain the player.

What solutions have been out there since then? No team -- not one in the league -- is trading its better defensemen so long as the player isn't demanding to get out or refuses to re-sign as a UFA.

Instead, what every team is doing is locking these players up into long-term contracts. The top guys nowadays are set to be available on the UFA market are the Streit and Gonchar over-35 types who still required multi-season, big $ contracts (and trading for their rights). The rest are scrap heap types and injury reclamation projects.

When there are no trades at less than extortionate prices, no impact free agents and building the blueline through the draft takes a half-decade of patience, what great solutions are out there?

Regarding Kubina, the Flyers got a former NHL All-Star who had what has proven to be career-ending shoulder damage.

What do you think of Wiercoch in Ottawa?
Seems to have fallen out of favor, has a big shot.
- Marc D

Good player, but Ottawa's not in a position to jettison youth, with their internal cap constraints and all.

I like both as buy low candidates. I don't think Del Zotto would be dealt within the division and I don't think the Leafs are going to give Gardiner away for a modest return. Leaf prospects are all Gretzky until they're 25.
- PhillySportsGuy

Lol at the Leaf prospect thing.
They've made trade with NYRs before but it does seem unlikely.

The solution for replacing Pronger was to sign Weber to a massive RFA offer sheet and to outbid every other team for Suter as a UFA.

Now, Suter wasn't coming here no matter what. So that was a fruitless avenue.

The Weber offer sheet was a poison pill to Nashville that they swallowed anyway, as the owners had to pay from their personal wealth to retain the player.

What solutions have been out there since then? No team -- not one in the league -- is trading its better defensemen so long as the player isn't demanding to get out or refuses to re-sign as a UFA.

Instead, what every team is doing is locking these players up into long-term contracts. The top guys nowadays are set to be available on the UFA market are the Streit and Gonchar over-35 types who still required multi-season, big $ contracts (and trading for their rights). The rest are scrap heap types and injury reclamation projects.

When there are no trades at less than extortionate prices, no impact free agents and building the blueline through the draft takes a half-decade of patience, what great solutions are out there?

Regarding Kubina, the Flyers got a former NHL All-Star who had what has proven to be career-ending shoulder damage.
- bmeltzer

JVR for Yandle.

Flyers had two big trade chips that they moved. Carter and Richards. When those trades were made, Pronger hadn't been injured yet, but he was advancing in age. The return the Flyers got for those players were fair, but perhaps the blueline could have been addressed then.
- PLindbergh31

I agree. You also have to remember how barren the forward group looked at the time of the trade. We had Giroux, but didn't realize he'd be a point per game forward. Jagr hadn't signed yet either. I bet if Couturier were taken, the Flyers would have chosen Hamilton with that pick.

JVR for Yandle.
- PLindbergh31

Yup, except that is was JVR++ for Yandle.

The other was Kubina... and yeah, Oduya would have been a savvy add, but what's that compared to pulling a Hatcher/Rathje Twin Towers redux at the TDL? OMG, that Lucic is a BEAST! Gotta stop him!


There's a lot of young-ish dmen in the NHL that aren't household names, but could be in the coming years... Flyers should target those guys, not the Byfugliens and Yandles.
- Tomahawk

Couldn't agree more. Two that jump out to me are PHX's David Rundblad and Brandon Gormley. I like Gormley more, as he brings the better two-way skill set but I think Rundblad could be had for cheaper.

Yup, except that is was JVR++ for Yandle.
- bmeltzer

No way! According to your esteemed colleague it was JVR for Yandle straight up!

The solution for replacing Pronger was to sign Weber to a massive RFA offer sheet and to outbid every other team for Suter as a UFA.

Now, Suter wasn't coming here no matter what. So that was a fruitless avenue.

The Weber offer sheet was a poison pill to Nashville that they swallowed anyway, as the owners had to pay from their personal wealth to retain the player.

What solutions have been out there since then? No team -- not one in the league -- is trading its better defensemen so long as the player isn't demanding to get out or refuses to re-sign as a UFA.

Instead, what every team is doing is locking these players up into long-term contracts. The top guys nowadays are set to be available on the UFA market are the Streit and Gonchar over-35 types who still required multi-season, big $ contracts (and trading for their rights). The rest are scrap heap types and injury reclamation projects.

When there are no trades at less than extortionate prices, no impact free agents and building the blueline through the draft takes a half-decade of patience, what great solutions are out there?

Regarding Kubina, the Flyers got a former NHL All-Star who had what has proven to be career-ending shoulder damage.
- bmeltzer

The funny part is that the solution to their problems would have been patience. If they would have waited one more year and done there best to clear as much salary as possible, Weber would probably be a Flyer. However, patience isn't the Flyer way. I fully suspect Weber expected to be a Flyer when he signed that deal.