Grossmann is signed to a fair deal. Guys who can play in the top 4 get massive deals. $3.5M is a bargain. Coburns deal is even looking pretty good.
- PhillySportsGuy

Oh I agree. Grossmann and Coburn both had rough weekends but for me Coburn is having a very good year and Grossmann I like.

They'd be much worse without them.

Can you imagine if they traded Coburn to EDM for picks this summer?
Pretty scary to me.

I agree. You also have to remember how barren the forward group looked at the time of the trade. We had Giroux, but didn't realize he'd be a point per game forward. Jagr hadn't signed yet either. I bet if Couturier were taken, the Flyers would have chosen Hamilton with that pick.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm ok with Couturier being taken over Hamilton. Flyers have a philosophy of taking best available instead of drafting need.

Exactly -- somebody like that. It could absolutely be a guy who we've never seen a lot of, but who thinks the game well enough and can skate.

If they can just improve the puck retrieval alone, so they don't get crushed by disciplined forechecks...it doesn't have to be Ryan Suter.

It just has to be somebody who can move with the puck, with the ability to think the game at an NHL average-level.
- AllInForFlyers

Yup... we saw how a 'minor' deal like Downie for Talbot sparked the forward mix... it could be that a similar 'minor' move for Clitsome, Barberio from Tampa (next Tony Krug), McBain, Nikitin, Smith from Detroit, Martinez from LA, or Rundblad might really change the complexion of the D.

I'm ok with Couturier being taken over Hamilton. Flyers have a philosophy of taking best available instead of drafting need.
- PLindbergh31

I'm ok with it too. It would have been nice to have a Couturier/Maata combination in back to back drafts though.

The solution for replacing Pronger was to sign Weber to a massive RFA offer sheet and to outbid every other team for Suter as a UFA.

Now, Suter wasn't coming here no matter what. So that was a fruitless avenue.

The Weber offer sheet was a poison pill to Nashville that they swallowed anyway, as the owners had to pay from their personal wealth to retain the player.

What solutions have been out there since then? No team -- not one in the league -- is trading its better defensemen so long as the player isn't demanding to get out or refuses to re-sign as a UFA.

Instead, what every team is doing is locking these players up into long-term contracts. The top guys nowadays are set to be available on the UFA market are the Streit and Gonchar over-35 types who still required multi-season, big $ contracts (and trading for their rights). The rest are scrap heap types and injury reclamation projects.

When there are no trades at less than extortionate prices, no impact free agents and building the blueline through the draft takes a half-decade of patience, what great solutions are out there?

Regarding Kubina, the Flyers got a former NHL All-Star who had what has proven to be career-ending shoulder damage.
- bmeltzer

That's exactly where I am. This is what the league is now.

Either we wait 3 to 5 years for Ghost, Hagg, Morin and Alt to help us -- with no guarantees that any of them do, though we are all hopeful -- or you sack up, pay the appropriate price that everyone knows we're going to have to pay to contend before then, and try to win the thing.

I'm not saying pay the "Pronger Price."

But I have said this and continue to say this: We're gonna have to pay this price if we want to contend before 2016 -- AT THE EARLIEST.

Laughton, the 2014 first, a roster forward, a prospect...we're gonna have to pay if we're going to contend, because we will not truly contend before we get another guy in here, maybe two.

JVR for Yandle.
- PLindbergh31

I know it's hyperbole but the Yotes reportedly wanted a young top forward, a D prospect and a first rounder for Yandle.
So extortion and no hockey trade to be made.

Not sure JvR alone gets Yandle .

Yup... we saw how a 'minor' deal like Downie for Talbot sparked the forward mix... it could be that a similar 'minor' move for Clitsome, Barberio from Tampa (next Tony Krug), McBain, Nikitin, Smith from Detroit, Martinez from LA, or Rundblad might really change the complexion over the D.
- Tomahawk

You gotta give to get though. Even young, struggling defenseman command a decent return. The leafs are trading Gardiner for Downie. They will want Read+ or Laughton+

Oh I agree. Grossmann and Coburn both had rough weekends but for me Coburn is having a very good year and Grossmann I like.

They'd be much worse without them.

Can you imagine if they traded Coburn to EDM for picks this summer?
Pretty scary to me.
- Marc D

Coburn has enough talent to be bordering on being a top pairing guy, unfortunately he just doesn't have the consistency, or the hockey instinct to fulfill his physical talent.

I think he's signed to a fair deal, and he was acquired for a bag of pucks, so I'm ok with Coburn. His inconsistency is maddening though.

That's exactly where I am. This is what the league is now.

Either we wait 3 to 5 years for Ghost, Hagg, Morin and Alt to help us -- with no guarantees that any of them do, though we are all hopeful -- or you sack up, pay the appropriate price that everyone knows we're going to have to pay to contend before then, and try to win the thing.

I'm not saying pay the "Pronger Price."

But I have said this and continue to say this: We're gonna have to pay this price if we want to contend before 2016 -- AT THE EARLIEST.

Laughton, the 2014 first, a roster forward, a prospect...we're gonna have to pay if we're going to contend, because we will not truly contend before we get another guy in here, maybe two.
- AllInForFlyers

Assuming the roster forward is someone like Read or Simmonds, that package may get you Byfuglien or Yandle.

That's just not worth it IMO

I'm ok with it too. It would have been nice to have a Couturier/Maata combination in back to back drafts though.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yup. I know. If they had Hamilton and Maata that would have been just fine as well.

That's exactly where I am. This is what the league is now.

Either we wait 3 to 5 years for Ghost, Hagg, Morin and Alt to help us -- with no guarantees that any of them do, though we are all hopeful -- or you sack up, pay the appropriate price that everyone knows we're going to have to pay to contend before then, and try to win the thing.

I'm not saying pay the "Pronger Price."

But I have said this and continue to say this: We're gonna have to pay this price if we want to contend before 2016 -- AT THE EARLIEST.

Laughton, the 2014 first, a roster forward, a prospect...we're gonna have to pay if we're going to contend, because we will not truly contend before we get another guy in here, maybe two.
- AllInForFlyers

I'm starting to feel this way too.
In ok with being patient and building through the draft,
But realize its not going to be a quick fix.

I'm ok with Couturier being taken over Hamilton. Flyers have a philosophy of taking best available instead of drafting need.
- PLindbergh31

Hamilton was rated pretty highly in the final rankings... on par or above Couturier by some scouting services. If Coots hadn't dropped to them, I think there's a good chance they would have gone D... either Hamilton, Murphy, or reached down for Klefbom or Oleksiak.

I'm starting to feel this way too.
In ok with being patient and building through the draft,
But realize its not going to be a quick fix.
- Marc D

I'm ok with trading prospects and picks, but it needs to be for a #1 defenseman. I don't want to give up 4 potential NHL players for a scoring defenseman like Yandle or Byfuglien. The guy they get needs to be able to match up against top lines too.

You gotta give to get though. Even young, struggling defenseman command a decent return. The leafs are trading Gardiner for Downie. They will want Read+ or Laughton+
- PhillySportsGuy

The kinds of players I'm talking about wouldn't cost a core piece, or even maybe a 1st-rounder. A few middling prospects, a top-60 pick, maybe even less.

I know it's hyperbole but the Yotes reportedly wanted a young top forward, a D prospect and a first rounder for Yandle.
So extortion and no hockey trade to be made.

Not sure JvR alone gets Yandle .
- Marc D

Who really knows what the Yotes wanted. Trading JVR at the time he was traded made little sense to me. He was coming off the worst year of his career. A season where he had numerous injuries (concussion, broken foot, bruised sternum). If you want to use JVR as trade bait for landing a D-man, why trade him when his stock is at an all time low?

I bet if Nonis called the Yotes now, JVR could net the Leafs Yandle.

Hamilton was rated pretty highly in the final rankings... on par or above Couturier by some scouting services. If Coots hadn't dropped to them, I think there's a good chance they would have gone D... either Hamilton, Murphy, or reached down for Klefbom or Oleksiak.
- Tomahawk

I wonder how in depth their evaluations were. They didn't have a first round pick for 2 years leading up to that draft. Then, days before the draft, they have a top 10 pick. I'm sure they scouted the guys, but it's curious to see how detailed they were. They may have spent more time on guys going in the 2nd round.

The kinds of players I'm talking about wouldn't cost a core piece, or even maybe a 1st-rounder. A few middling prospects, a top-60 pick, maybe even less.
- Tomahawk

Guys like that are a shot in the dark. It's equivalent to signing guys in their mid 20s out of college or overseas. Its a total crapshoot.

I wonder how in depth their evaluations were. They didn't have a first round pick for 2 years leading up to that draft. Then, days before the draft, they have a top 10 pick. I'm sure they scouted the guys, but it's curious to see how detailed they were. They may have spent more time on guys going in the 2nd round.
- PhillySportsGuy

I believe they approach it assuming that they might trade for the 1st-overall or any pick thereafter. Doubt they went to the draft table unprepared, or less prepared than years where they have a lottery pick.

Guys like that are a shot in the dark. It's equivalent to signing guys in their mid 20s out of college or overseas. Its a total crapshoot.
- PhillySportsGuy

Most of the guys I listed are already NHL players... at worst, you'd end up with another bottom-pairing guy, but much more affordable to carry than Mez.

At best... some of those guys have outside shots at top-pairing potential... most have top-4 potential.

I'm ok with trading prospects and picks, but it needs to be for a #1 defenseman. I don't want to give up 4 potential NHL players for a scoring defenseman like Yandle or Byfuglien. The guy they get needs to be able to match up against top lines too.
- PhillySportsGuy

Not sure any of those kind of players become available, but if one does I think they have to pull the trigger and do it.

I keep thinking that PK Subban might become that guy, just seems like he is treated a bit rough by their management. He would cost a ton but I really like him.

I believe they approach it assuming that they might trade for the 1st-overall or any pick thereafter. Doubt they went to the draft table unprepared, or less prepared than years where they have a lottery pick.
- Tomahawk

I know. I'm sure they do. It must be frustrating for the scouters to have no 1st round picks. I remember when they drafted Couturier, they were surprised he was still around.

Who really knows what the Yotes wanted. Trading JVR at the time he was traded made little sense to me. He was coming off the worst year of his career. A season where he had numerous injuries (concussion, broken foot, bruised sternum). If you want to use JVR as trade bait for landing a D-man, why trade him when his stock is at an all time low?

I bet if Nonis called the Yotes now, JVR could net the Leafs Yandle.
- PLindbergh31

I know how you feel.
I wish they still had JvR.
And I like Luke more then most people around here.

Not sure any of those kind of players become available, but if one does I think they have to pull the trigger and do it.

I keep thinking that PK Subban might become that guy, just seems like he is treated a bit rough by their management. He would cost a ton but I really like him.
- Marc D

If they get him, it will likely be through free agency. He is about to break the bank. I can't see Montreal letting him go. It would be very smug of them.

I know. I'm sure they do. It must be frustrating for the scouters to have no 1st round picks. I remember when they drafted Couturier, they were surprised he was still around.
- PhillySportsGuy

They basically spend the entire year preparing for that moment, so when Homer trades them away, I'm sure there's a lot of angst over it.

The team I look at is Buffalo, with Christian Ehrhoff.

They are absolutely terrible. He's 31 years old. There is NO WAY that team contends before 2017, at the earliest.

They have to trade him, right? On what Earth do you keep Christian Ehrhoff, when you are as bad as Buffalo and are years away from contending -- you need wingers, you need centers, and if/when you move Ryan Miller, you need a goalie?