No! Berube needs to bench him and send him a message. If players go through a rough two game stretch, they will sit and be ostracized in the streets. Tar and feathered for the masses to fully understand the embarrassment this player has brought to the franchise.
- PhillySportsGuy

So I assume they're still heating up the tar for Downie?

So I assume they're still heating up the tar for Downie?
- BulliesPhan87

Birds are currently being plucked

Grossmann's numbers may not be great, but he is, without question, one of the top 4 defenseman on the Flyers. As bad as Grossmann may look, Streit, Mez, Gus and Gill are worse. If you want Grossmann benched, find better defenseman.
- PhillySportsGuy

That gets us back to the other discussion. Maybe if others got more ice time, like Grossmann does, they'd play with more confidence and play better, rather than playing worried to make a mistake.

I'd say a healthy Meszaros could be better-and was better-than Grossmann. Streit, despite his defensive deficiencies, is one of the few defensemen that can consistently move the puck and provide offense from the back end. He also has fewer giveaways than Grossmann, despite handling the puck more often.

Not saying Gill is "better", but I'm confident he can block shots & hit as well as Grossmann & commit fewer mistakes with the puck. Gustafsson is a guy taht should be dressed every game, because he's got good speed and is capable of handling the puck.

Birds are currently being plucked
- PhillySportsGuy

Too slow. I'm sure Downie has some pillows at his house. Maybe even a comforter or two. We'll use those. The ultimate insult is to tar and feather you in your own bedding.

That gets us back to the other discussion. Maybe if others got more ice time, like Grossmann does, they'd play with more confidence and play better, rather than playing worried to make a mistake.

I'd say a healthy Meszaros could be better-and was better-than Grossmann. Streit, despite his defensive deficiencies, is one of the few defensemen that can consistently move the puck and provide offense from the back end. He also has fewer giveaways than Grossmann, despite handling the puck more often.

Not saying Gill is "better", but I'm confident he can block shots & hit as well as Grossmann & commit fewer mistakes with the puck. Gustafsson is a guy taht should be dressed every game, because he's got good speed and is capable of handling the puck.
- Jsaquella

So we are upping Schenn's ice time then?

That gets us back to the other discussion. Maybe if others got more ice time, like Grossmann does, they'd play with more confidence and play better, rather than playing worried to make a mistake.

I'd say a healthy Meszaros could be better-and was better-than Grossmann. Streit, despite his defensive deficiencies, is one of the few defensemen that can consistently move the puck and provide offense from the back end. He also has fewer giveaways than Grossmann, despite handling the puck more often.

Not saying Gill is "better", but I'm confident he can block shots & hit as well as Grossmann & commit fewer mistakes with the puck. Gustafsson is a guy taht should be dressed every game, because he's got good speed and is capable of handling the puck.
- Jsaquella

Mez and Streit have been such a mess in their own zone though. I don't believe anyone outside of Timonen and Coburn are better than Grossmann. Schenn has his ups and downs. At times, he's better, but at other times, he's much worse.

Edit: Gill is worse at everything than Grossmann. There is a reason no one wanted him.

See what happens when you bench Downie?



All kidding aside, rough weekend. Flyers need to bounce back. Seems like everyone in the East got hot at the same time.

And the Flyers still have another "lovely" little stretch upcoming against Boston, Detroit, Anaheim (away), LA (away), San Jose (away), and Colorado.

That could be a pretty bad two weeks.

In short--get points now.
- Moose_15

IMHO this is the stretch that makes us or breaks us. If they go on a loosing streak, better start getting familiar with this list:

Central Scouting's Mid Term Rankings

1 BENNETT, SAMUEL KINGSTON OHL C 6' 0.25" 178
2 DRAISAITL, LEON PRINCE ALBERT WHL C 6' 1.75" 208
3 EKBLAD, AARON BARRIE OHL D 6' 3.5" 216
4 REINHART, SAM KOOTENAY WHL C 6' 0.75" 185
5 DAL COLLE, MICHAEL OSHAWA OHL C/LW 6' 1.5" 179
6 FLEURY, HAYDN RED DEER WHL D 6' 2.5" 198
7 RITCHIE, NICHOLAS PETERBOROUGH OHL LW 6' 2.25" 231
8 PERLINI, BRENDAN NIAGARA OHL LW 6' 2.5" 205
9 VIRTANEN, JAKE CALGARY WHL RW 6' 0.75" 208
10 DEANGELO, ANTHONY SARNIA OHL D 5' 10.75" 175
11 MCCANN, JARED SAULT STE. MARIE OHL C 6' 0.25" 179
12 BARBASHEV, IVAN MONCTON QMJHL C/LW 6' 1.0" 185
13 HONKA, JULIUS SWIFT CURRENT WHL D 5' 10.5" 178
14 GOLDOBIN, NIKOLAY SARNIA OHL RW 5' 11.5" 178
15 MCKEOWN, ROLAND KINGSTON OHL D 6' 0.75" 197
16 MILANO, SONNY USA U-18 USHL LW 5' 11.5" 183
17 LARKIN, DYLAN USA U-18 USHL C 6' 0.75" 190
18 HO-SANG, JOSHUA WINDSOR OHL C/RW 5' 11.0" 166
19 SCHMALTZ, NICK GREEN BAY USHL C 5' 11.5" 172
20 MARTIN, BRYCEN SWIFT CURRENT WHL D 6' 1.75" 182
21 TUCH, ALEX USA U-18 USHL C/RW 6' 3.5" 213
22 EHLERS, NIKOLAJ HALIFAX QMJHL LW 5' 11.5" 162
23 CORNEL, ERIC PETERBOROUGH OHL C 6' 1.5" 186
24 SCHERBAK, NIKITA SASKATOON WHL RW 6' 2.0" 174
25 FABBRI, ROBERT GUELPH OHL C 5' 10.0" 166
26 DE LEO, CHASE PORTLAND WHL C 5' 9.0" 177
27 GLOVER, JACK USA U-18 USHL D 6' 3.25" 190
28 HAYDON, AARON NIAGARA OHL D 6' 2.75" 197
29 DOUGHERTY, JACK USA U-18 USHL D 6' 1.0" 186
30 CHATHAM, CONNOR PLYMOUTH OHL RW 6' 2.0" 224

Forearm injury in the NJ game. I think he's OK now.

He simply had a nightmarish couple of games. It happens. He was very good in the NJ and Montreal games right before it.
- bmeltzer

i like him, i don't want him tarred and feathered. still a bit disappointing to see him and streit regressing as a pair, they had started to look okay together for a while there.

IMHO this is the stretch that makes us or breaks us. If they go on a loosing streak, better start getting familiar with this list:

Central Scouting's Mid Term Rankings

1 BENNETT, SAMUEL KINGSTON OHL C 6' 0.25" 178
2 DRAISAITL, LEON PRINCE ALBERT WHL C 6' 1.75" 208
3 EKBLAD, AARON BARRIE OHL D 6' 3.5" 216
4 REINHART, SAM KOOTENAY WHL C 6' 0.75" 185
5 DAL COLLE, MICHAEL OSHAWA OHL C/LW 6' 1.5" 179
6 FLEURY, HAYDN RED DEER WHL D 6' 2.5" 198
7 RITCHIE, NICHOLAS PETERBOROUGH OHL LW 6' 2.25" 231
8 PERLINI, BRENDAN NIAGARA OHL LW 6' 2.5" 205
9 VIRTANEN, JAKE CALGARY WHL RW 6' 0.75" 208
10 DEANGELO, ANTHONY SARNIA OHL D 5' 10.75" 175
11 MCCANN, JARED SAULT STE. MARIE OHL C 6' 0.25" 179
12 BARBASHEV, IVAN MONCTON QMJHL C/LW 6' 1.0" 185
13 HONKA, JULIUS SWIFT CURRENT WHL D 5' 10.5" 178
14 GOLDOBIN, NIKOLAY SARNIA OHL RW 5' 11.5" 178
15 MCKEOWN, ROLAND KINGSTON OHL D 6' 0.75" 197
16 MILANO, SONNY USA U-18 USHL LW 5' 11.5" 183
17 LARKIN, DYLAN USA U-18 USHL C 6' 0.75" 190
18 HO-SANG, JOSHUA WINDSOR OHL C/RW 5' 11.0" 166
19 SCHMALTZ, NICK GREEN BAY USHL C 5' 11.5" 172
20 MARTIN, BRYCEN SWIFT CURRENT WHL D 6' 1.75" 182
21 TUCH, ALEX USA U-18 USHL C/RW 6' 3.5" 213
22 EHLERS, NIKOLAJ HALIFAX QMJHL LW 5' 11.5" 162
23 CORNEL, ERIC PETERBOROUGH OHL C 6' 1.5" 186
24 SCHERBAK, NIKITA SASKATOON WHL RW 6' 2.0" 174
25 FABBRI, ROBERT GUELPH OHL C 5' 10.0" 166
26 DE LEO, CHASE PORTLAND WHL C 5' 9.0" 177
27 GLOVER, JACK USA U-18 USHL D 6' 3.25" 190
28 HAYDON, AARON NIAGARA OHL D 6' 2.75" 197
29 DOUGHERTY, JACK USA U-18 USHL D 6' 1.0" 186
30 CHATHAM, CONNOR PLYMOUTH OHL RW 6' 2.0" 224

- PhillaBully

Where are the international prospects?

Too slow. I'm sure Downie has some pillows at his house. Maybe even a comforter or two. We'll use those. The ultimate insult is to tar and feather you in your own bedding.
- FlyersGrace

I know this is all in fun, but I realized recently in reading about the period that people died from being tarred and feathered. Pretty brutal.

Grossmann isn't the type of player you bench to give a wake up call. You bench him because you have 6 better defenseman. That simply is not the case with this team. Give Grossmann a competent partner in his own end and he won't disappoint. Give him Streit or Mez and suddenly things don't look too good.
- PhillySportsGuy

two years ago (i think?) grossmann and mez were paired together and played well together imo.

Mez and Streit have been such a mess in their own zone though. I don't believe anyone outside of Timonen and Coburn are better than Grossmann. Schenn has his ups and downs. At times, he's better, but at other times, he's much worse.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes, Meszaros and Streit have been a mess in their own end...and so has Grossmann. It's not as if Grossmann is out there playing Larry Robinson or Rod Langway caliber defense, while Meszaros & Streit have been playing like Paul Coffey in his own end.

What I'm saying is, Grossmann's deficiencies aren't outweighed by his strengths, and really haven't been for most of the year. My issues with Grossmann started prior to this weekend. I don't think he's played very well for most of the season thus far.

I'm not tarring & feathering a guy for two bad games.

Too slow. I'm sure Downie has some pillows at his house. Maybe even a comforter or two. We'll use those. The ultimate insult is to tar and feather you in your own bedding.
- FlyersGrace

I feel like Downie got a bit of a raw deal. He hasn't played well, but he was so good on the third line. Then, he got injured and lost his spot.

So we are upping Schenn's ice time then?

- FlyersGrace

I'd rather see him than Grossmann.

two years ago (i think?) grossmann and mez were paired together and played well together imo.
- -davies-

Two years ago seems like forever for Mez. I think Mez was at his best when paired with O'Donnell on the third pairing.

I know this is all in fun, but I realized recently in reading about the period that people died from being tarred and feathered. Pretty brutal.
- bodiva88

Yes, molten hot tar can cause death.

I feel like Downie got a bit of a raw deal. He hasn't played well, but he was so good on the third line. Then, he got injured and lost his spot.
- PhillySportsGuy

Do you think he came back too early?

Where are the international prospects?
- PhillySportsGuy

1 KAPANEN, KASPERI KALPA FINLAND RW 6' 0.0" 180
2 NYLANDER, WILLIAM SODERTALJE SWEDEN-2 C/RW 5' 11.0" 169
3 KEMPE, ADRIAN MODO JR. SWEDEN-JR. LW 6' 1.5" 187
4 PASTRNAK, DAVID SODERTALJE SWEDEN-2 RW 6' 0.0" 167
5 VRANA, JAKUB LINKOPING SWEDEN LW/RW 5' 11.0" 185
6 KARLSSON, ANTON FROLUNDA JR. SWEDEN-JR. RW 6' 1.25" 187
7 NEKOLENKO, ARKHIP SPARTAK 2 RUSSIA-JR. LW 6' 2.0" 176
8 KAMENEV, VLADISLAV MAGNITOGORSK 2 RUSSIA-JR. LW 6' 2.0" 198
9 AHO, SEBASTIAN SKELLEFTEA JR. SWEDEN-JR. D 5' 9.25" 165
10 PETTERSSON, MARKUS SKELLEFTEA JR. SWEDEN-JR. D 6' 4.0" 167
11 FIALA, KEVIN HV 71 JR. SWEDEN-JR. LW 5' 10.0" 180
12 JOHANSSON, EMIL HV 71 JR. SWEDEN-JR. D 5' 11.75" 194
13 LAMMIKKO, JUHO ASSAT JR. FINLAND-JR. RW 6' 2.5" 189
14 TKACHYOV, VLADIMIR OMSK 2 RUSSIA-JR. LW 5' 10.0" 146
15 PILUT, LAWRENCE HV 71 JR. SWEDEN-JR. D 5' 11.0" 165
16 KASE, ONDREJ CHOMUTOV CZREP RW 6' 0.0" 165
17 OLLAS MATTSSON, ADAM DJURGARDEN JR. SWEDEN-JR. D 6' 4.0" 209
18 MASIN, DOMINIK SLAVIA JR. CZREP-JR. D 6' 2.0" 189
19 JENYS, PAVEL BRNO CZREP C 6' 2.5" 192
20 SHAROV, ALEXANDER CSKA 2 RUSSIA-JR. LW 6' 2.0" 187
21 LUNDBERG, ARVID SKELLEFTEA SWEDEN D 6' 1.0" 187
22 BERGMAN, JULIUS FROLUNDA JR. SWEDEN-JR. D 6' 1.0" 187
23 LINDBLOM, OSKAR BRYNAS JR. SWEDEN-JR. LW 6' 1.25" 191
24 WALLMARK, LUCAS LULEA SWEDEN C 6' 0.0" 176
25 TRYAMKIN, NIKITA YEKATERINBURG RUSSIA D 6' 7.0" 228
26 KRASKOVSKY, PAVEL YAROSLAVL 2 RUSSIA-JR. C 6' 4.0" 187
27 KAMPF, DAVID CHOMUTOV CZREP RW 6' 2.0" 183
28 PYROCHTA, FILIP BENATKY N. J. CZREP-2 D 6' 0.0" 176
29 MUZITO BAGENDA, DANIEL MODO JR. SWEDEN-JR. LW 6' 1.0" 198
30 GAVRIKOV, VLADISLAV YAROSLAVL 2 RUSSIA-JR. D 6' 2.0" 191

Play 7D and bench Rosehill if Read and Downie aren't ready.

Yes, Meszaros and Streit have been a mess in their own end...and so has Grossmann. It's not as if Grossmann is out there playing Larry Robinson or Rod Langway caliber defense, while Meszaros & Streit have been playing like Paul Coffey in his own end.

What I'm saying is, Grossmann's deficiencies aren't outweighed by his strengths, and really haven't been for most of the year. My issues with Grossmann started prior to this weekend. I don't think he's played very well for most of the season thus far.

I'm not tarring & feathering a guy for two bad games.
- Jsaquella

I think you'd see a lot more problems with him out of the lineup. I think you're taking foregranted what he does. Gill cannot step into the lineup and give you everything Grossmann does. Gill is a pillar and slower than Grossmann. Giving Streit and Mez more opportunities in their own end will spell disaster.

Mez and Streit have been such a mess in their own zone though. I don't believe anyone outside of Timonen and Coburn are better than Grossmann. Schenn has his ups and downs. At times, he's better, but at other times, he's much worse.

Edit: Gill is worse at everything than Grossmann. There is a reason no one wanted him.
- PhillySportsGuy

The narrative is that Streit has been a mess in his own zone, but I'm totally confused as to how this works.

Streit has played at even strength with Grossmann for much of the season, including when the Flyers have played well and some games when the Flyers have played poorly.

How is it that Streit is a mess in his own end and Grossmann...isn't? Just because Grossmann can't score, so he has to be a defensive defenseman?

That narrative is false -- Grossmann is a solid defenseman who is likely a #5 on a Cup-caliber team, maybe a #6. And I'm fine with that.

But he's not so much better a defenseman than Streit is, for what they bring to the team, that Grossmann should get a pass for every single time the puck winds up in the net and Streit never, and I mean NEVER, gets cut any slack for when he's within 20 yards of the Wells Fargo Center when a goal gets scored.

Coburn gets the same treatment -- if a goal gets scored when he's on the ice, it's because he didn't do something. But if Timonen gets beat, well, the "Savvy Veteran" gets the benefit of the doubt.

The whipping boy ability of this fanbase sometimes is...you can't keep track of it sometimes. Mark Streit hasn't done ANYTHING to always get lumped in with everybody else's defensive struggles!

Do you think he came back too early?
- FlyersGrace

I think he was a man without a line. Raffl was playing well on the top line, the 2nd line was really clicking and they weren't about to move Vinny to the 4th line. He got lost in the numbers. On top of that, our 4th line is horrendous. I was hoping he could bring something positive to them, but it appeared they infected him.

I blame Downie for not playing through the "demotion", but I understand his frustration. This is a guy who has played on several top lines with very good players. To play well then be relegated to 4th line duty would piss me off too.

Two years ago seems like forever for Mez. I think Mez was at his best when paired with O'Donnell on the third pairing.
- PhillySportsGuy

i honestly think he was better in the short stint with grossmann. he really opened up his offensive game with him. the pair was broken up when they made coburn and gorssmann the shutdown pair in the playoffs that year and i was bummed about it. i am a known mesz apologist though.

I think you'd see a lot more problems with him out of the lineup. I think you're taking foregranted what he does. Gill cannot step into the lineup and give you everything Grossmann does. Gill is a pillar and slower than Grossmann. Giving Streit and Mez more opportunities in their own end will spell disaster.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's spelled disaster too often for Grossmann. I really feel you're overstating his level of play.

I get it, he's a very likeable player. He works hard. He's gritty. he does the dirty work and sacrifices his body. I wish he was playing better. But he's not.

I know this is all in fun, but I realized recently in reading about the period that people died from being tarred and feathered. Pretty brutal.
- bodiva88

Way off topic, but they actually depicted a tar and feathering in that John Adams series on HBO. It was pretty crazy.