I re-watched 33 goals scored on the Flyers while Grossmann was on ice this past week for a blog I wrote.

I'd rather watch the entire process for preparing a McDonald's burger, from cow to "food", and then eat it than do that again.
- Jsaquella

That's just foul...

Who is available?
- PhillySportsGuy

I aside from UFAs? Not sure which is why I proposed the question I want to see who people realistically would pick to rebuild our defense because the truth is our defense core sucks.

mesz signed that contract in tampa and had been a top pair guy in the past with mixed results.
- -davies-

Sure, but Paul Holmgren elected to take that odious contract on, when the rest of the league wanted nothing to do with it at the time.

Mez has played in the top-four, but all the underlying numbers seem to suggest that he becomes more and more ineffective (exposed) against tougher competition and in more defensive situations.

Like Streit, he needs to be sheltered to have a net positive effect.

So when do we figure out if we are buyers or sellers at the trade deadline?
Which is when?

So when do we figure out if we are buyers or sellers at the trade deadline?
Which is when?
- FlyersGrace

i'd be a seller at the TDL cause lets face it unless mason becomes cam ward in 2006 we're not going to win

So when do we figure out if we are buyers or sellers at the trade deadline?
Which is when?
- FlyersGrace

next two weeks.

So when do we figure out if we are buyers or sellers at the trade deadline?
Which is when?
- FlyersGrace

TDL is March 5.

I have a feeling this will be the most uneventful TDL in years... everybody's looking to buy, and nobody has any cap space to do it.

Sure, but Paul Holmgren elected to take that odious contract on, when the rest of the league wanted nothing to do with it at the time.

Mez has played in the top-four, but all the underlying numbers seem to suggest that he becomes more and more ineffective (exposed) against tougher competition and in more defensive situations.

Like Streit, he needs to be sheltered to have a net positive effect.
- Tomahawk

I think Meszaros contract is a red herring here. We weren't prevented from pursuing the big ticket free agent (sort of) defenseman we wanted this summer by his cap hit, and we most certainly haven't been hindered from throwing big offers at other defensemen we wanted prior. The problem isn't the cap, it's the high cost (in hockey assets) of acquiring defensemen, and the poor mix we have on the blueline.

Sure, but Paul Holmgren elected to take that odious contract on, when the rest of the league wanted nothing to do with it at the time.

Mez has played in the top-four, but all the underlying numbers seem to suggest that he becomes more and more ineffective (exposed) against tougher competition and in more defensive situations.

Like Streit, he needs to be sheltered to have a net positive effect.
- Tomahawk

i think this is where i say prove the bolded or something...


i've seen mesz play at a high level, including watching him play top pair in the stanley cup finals with ottawa and win the b ashbee in philly years later. he certainly isn't perfect i know that and it wouldn't even really bug me if he needs to be sheltered from tougher competition if that means we can get the best out of him that way...

i just would rather see him get the chance to get his game back. if he were to be re-signed i'd expect a big paycut and a one year contract.

glad i missed both games. they had loss written all over them. as bill said, not surprising, but disappointing.

mood?

TDL is March 5.

I have a feeling this will be the most uneventful TDL in years... everybody's looking to buy, and nobody has any cap space to do it.
- Tomahawk

maybe tsn will smarten up and not devote an entire day to absolutely nothing.

glad i missed both games. they had loss written all over them. as bill said, not surprising, but disappointing.

mood?
- hammarby31

2 sides of the spectrum.

McGinn back to the Phantoms. I just don't get it

McGinn back to the Phantoms. I just don't get it
- nastyflyergirl

maybe that's good news about read?

2 sides of the spectrum.
- flyer_nutter

the spectrum is gone. a large watered down sports bar sits on its footprint.

McGinn back to the Phantoms. I just don't get it
- nastyflyergirl

who knows?

apparently giroux thinks jvr is a pigeon.

https://vine.co/v/hLZLe6q99bL

I'm as big a Grossmann fan as anyone, but yeah, he had a couple bad games...it happens. Normally he's pretty solid and makes a lot of good plays each game that aren't all that obvious and that don't necessarily show up on the (advanced) stats, like taking guys off the puck in the d zone, taking hits to make a play, surprising puck moving plays, pinches, zone keeps etc. Of course, the mistakes, like icings, giveaways and coverage issues get magnified, especially when it leads to a goal against.

I think he gets a pass over the likes of Schenn, Gusty and Mez because he's built up lots of good-will with the coaching staff by having a long history of being solid...the others are either younger, developing players that are more inconsistent or, in Mez's case, a guy coming back from injury trouble who has struggled at times to find his game.

Jsaq has been down on Grossmann all season. He has stated his feeling numerous times about the player and doesn't hesitate to point out mistakes and cite statistics and so forth that try and paint the player in a negative light. While one is certaintly entitled to their opinion, most other observers, including Bill and myself, have defended the defender and feel he's, on balance, played more solidly than what Jsaq has portrayed. I almost feel like Jsaq doesn't see a lot of the good plays he makes and only tends to focus on the bad.

As far as the giveaway/takeaway stats, I think a lot of that is a function of his type of game. Grossmann makes most of his living deep in the defensive zone...he bangs bodies to free up pucks...when he is battling deep and manages to get to a loose puck, he doesn't often have support and ends up trying to go up the boards and/or out of the zone, where the opposition is in position to take posession, which techincally, leads to a give-away. By and large, when he has time and space and support, Grosssmann usually makes a good puck moving play...on a related note, one of the things I like about Grossmann is his ability to lay the body on opposing players along the boards...he often removes the player from the puck or at least keeps them from continuing to play it, but it's frustrating at times because the support isn't there from his teammates to recognize and get to that loose puck...too often it is the opposing player who gets to it, which prolongs their possession in the zone (and negatively impacts certain advanced stats).

I'm not trying to say Grossmann doesn't make the mistakes he makes..obviously he's not perfect...but when I look at the entirety of his game over the long term, it's clear to me he's a solid defensive d man. I'm with Bill in my view that he's a bona-fide top 4 D man on most teams, #5 at worst.

I'm as big a Grossmann fan as anyone, but yeah, he had a couple bad games...it happens. Normally he's pretty solid and makes a lot of good plays each game that aren't all that obvious and that don't necessarily show up on the (advanced) stats, like taking guys off the puck in the d zone, taking hits to make a play, surprising puck moving plays, pinches, zone keeps etc. Of course, the mistakes, like icings, giveaways and coverage issues get magnified, especially when it leads to a goal against.

I think he gets a pass over the likes of Schenn, Gusty and Mez because he's built up lots of good-will with the coaching staff by having a long history of being solid...the others are either younger, developing players that are more inconsistent or, in Mez's case, a guy coming back from injury trouble who has struggled at times to find his game.

Jsaq has been down on Grossmann all season. He has stated his feeling numerous times about the player and doesn't hesitate to point out mistakes and cite statistics and so forth that try and paint the player in a negative light. While one is certaintly entitled to their opinion, most other observers, including Bill and myself, have defended the defender and feel he's, on balance, played more solidly than what Jsaq has portrayed. I almost feel like Jsaq doesn't see a lot of the good plays he makes and only tends to focus on the bad.

As far as the giveaway/takeaway stats, I think a lot of that is a function of his type of game. Grossmann makes most of his living deep in the defensive zone...he bangs bodies to free up pucks...when he is battling deep and manages to get to a loose puck, he doesn't often have support and ends up trying to go up the boards and/or out of the zone, where the opposition is in position to take posession, which techincally, leads to a give-away. By and large, when he has time and space and support, Grosssmann usually makes a good puck moving play...on a related note, one of the things I like about Grossmann is his ability to lay the body on opposing players along the boards...he often removes the player from the puck or at least keeps them from continuing to play it, but it's frustrating at times because the support isn't there from his teammates to recognize and get to that loose puck...too often it is the opposing player who gets to it, which prolongs their possession in the zone (and negatively impacts certain advanced stats).

I'm not trying to say Grossmann doesn't make the mistakes he makes..obviously he's not perfect...but when I look at the entirety of his game over the long term, it's clear to me he's a solid defensive d man. I'm with Bill in my view that he's a bona-fide top 4 D man on most teams, #5 at worst.
- exlund

Bona-fide bottom 4 dman imo

I'm as big a Grossmann fan as anyone, but yeah, he had a couple bad games...it happens. Normally he's pretty solid and makes a lot of good plays each game that aren't all that obvious and that don't necessarily show up on the (advanced) stats, like taking guys off the puck in the d zone, taking hits to make a play, surprising puck moving plays, pinches, zone keeps etc. Of course, the mistakes, like icings, giveaways and coverage issues get magnified, especially when it leads to a goal against.

I think he gets a pass over the likes of Schenn, Gusty and Mez because he's built up lots of good-will with the coaching staff by having a long history of being solid...the others are either younger, developing players that are more inconsistent or, in Mez's case, a guy coming back from injury trouble who has struggled at times to find his game.

Jsaq has been down on Grossmann all season. He has stated his feeling numerous times about the player and doesn't hesitate to point out mistakes and cite statistics and so forth that try and paint the player in a negative light. While one is certaintly entitled to their opinion, most other observers, including Bill and myself, have defended the defender and feel he's, on balance, played more solidly than what Jsaq has portrayed. I almost feel like Jsaq doesn't see a lot of the good plays he makes and only tends to focus on the bad.

As far as the giveaway/takeaway stats, I think a lot of that is a function of his type of game. Grossmann makes most of his living deep in the defensive zone...he bangs bodies to free up pucks...when he is battling deep and manages to get to a loose puck, he doesn't often have support and ends up trying to go up the boards and/or out of the zone, where the opposition is in position to take posession, which techincally, leads to a give-away. By and large, when he has time and space and support, Grosssmann usually makes a good puck moving play...on a related note, one of the things I like about Grossmann is his ability to lay the body on opposing players along the boards...he often removes the player from the puck or at least keeps them from continuing to play it, but it's frustrating at times because the support isn't there from his teammates to recognize and get to that loose puck...too often it is the opposing player who gets to it, which prolongs their possession in the zone (and negatively impacts certain advanced stats).

I'm not trying to say Grossmann doesn't make the mistakes he makes..obviously he's not perfect...but when I look at the entirety of his game over the long term, it's clear to me he's a solid defensive d man. I'm with Bill in my view that he's a bona-fide top 4 D man on most teams, #5 at worst.
- exlund

now what do you think of coburn

i think this is where i say prove the bolded or something...
- -davies-

How bad does a 25-year-old dman (in a top-pairing role) have to be playing, and how ugly does his contract have to be, for him to only command a 2nd-rounder during the summer?

That would be like John Carlson getting traded for a 2nd this summer... which we can assume is pretty impossible, since there would be no shortage of teams lining up around the block for him, even though he's struggled at times in his own zone.

It's no secret that the Flyers are not getting much ROI for all the dollars they've been throwing at the blueline.... Mez is one of the contributors to that problem.

The big question is still the same one for me.
Will the Flyers be willing to trade core forward(s) and/or
prospects for a defenseman. That's if one even becomes
available. One of Simmonds, Brayden Schenn, Couturier, Voracek maybe with a pick
could maybe get it done.

Winnipeg is a mess. Say Bogosian or Enstrom becomes available, or even
PK Subban who maybe for whatever reason falls out of favor in Habville.

Simmonds plus a pick for PK.
Would you do it?

I think they may have to.
UFA will be overpriced, old and slim pickings.

McGinn back to the Phantoms. I just don't get it
- nastyflyergirl

Probably means Read/Downie are ready to play tomorrow night. Makes sense to have McGinn playing games in Adirondack, as opposed to playing grab ass in the press box with Rosehill.

I would rather see McGinn on the 4th line than VDV.

Bona-fide bottom 4 dman imo
- moylander

Ok well, he's a middle 6 defenseman.

Ideally he's a #4 to a solid, two-way #3, which we don't have, unless you count Timonen, who currently plays a top pairing role. Streit is more of a PP specialist/#5 than a #3 or (certainly) #1.