Vinny wasnt out of place in Tampa, his cap hit was for a 2nd line center.
- youarewrong

Anytime I watched them he had different linemates. As in they couldn't figure out the right people to play him with. I could be wrong.

I think next season you would be looking at a PK set-up of the following:

Couturier-Read
Hall-Laughton
With Giroux and Raffl as the extras.

Do think Raffl needs to continue to develop a PK game, if he really wants a long term future in the league.
- flyer_nutter

I think if Hall is still on this team next season then there is going to be issues. I'm not so sure Downie gets resigned, but I think at the right price it would be a good idea. I have a feeling that if a big move isnt made before the deadline involving one of our Centers, then one will be made in the offseason at the draft. Maybe for PK or Buff.

And to be honest, I'm not counting on Raffl next season at all. I have seen too many 1 year wonders to count on Raffl for production. I'll pencil him in on the roster, but not in any significant roles... and I wont pass up a better player just because I have him.

Which is the issue here. A cap hit handed out to a guy that should be playing 2nd line center based on the cash/term.

However in terms of overall play? He should be on the fourth line if that. If he is still recovering from injury which I could see, he needs to sit at this point and give the minutes to either Cousins, Akeson or McGinn.
- flyer_nutter

I can accept your opinion that he should be playing 4th line, if you were in agreement with me that 2 weeks ago Hartnell should have been playing on the 4th line.

It's worth noting that the guy had a broken back.

That's not hyperbole. He had a non displaced back fracture.

With that injury and at his age, I'm thinking the Olympic break will be good for him.
- johndewar

agreed

I think if Hall is still on this team next season then there is going to be issues. I'm not so sure Downie gets resigned, but I think at the right price it would be a good idea. I have a feeling that if a big move isnt made before the deadline involving one of our Centers, then one will be made in the offseason at the draft. Maybe for PK or Buff.

And to be honest, I'm not counting on Raffl next season at all. I have seen too many 1 year wonders to count on Raffl for production. I'll pencil him in on the roster, but not in any significant roles... and I wont pass up a better player just because I have him.
- youarewrong

I'd be fine with Hall on for another year. I don't want to just pencil Laughton into that spot when he did very little to impress during his brief stint with the team this season, and had a poor WJC.

For Raffl, I do think you need to be realistic. I am cool with the guy on a fourth line role. He is having a decent time up on that first line, and his speed is really a positive up there. However the hands of stone, imo hold him back from being a real long term solution there.

So looking at things long term, as a fourth liner he needs to specialize in something. Not just be a warm "Nodl" body. If he can develop a good PK game, and be given the opportunity to do so, I like Raffl's chances.

I can accept your opinion that he should be playing 4th line, if you were in agreement with me that 2 weeks ago Hartnell should have been playing on the 4th line.
- youarewrong

Haha man, I wanted Hartnell off the team for a few years now. He is either on fire, or completely worthless and almost a liability.

Hartnell is a prime-time trade candidate for me around the deadline or draft. Edmonton desperately needs grit, and a veteran influence. As does Winnipeg, and a few other teams. His hot streak now might make him trade-able. Although the NMC may be an issue of course.

I'd be fine with Hall on for another year. I don't want to just pencil Laughton into that spot when he did very little to impress during his brief stint with the team this season, and had a poor WJC.

For Raffl, I do think you need to be realistic. I am cool with the guy on a fourth line role. He is having a decent time up on that first line, and his speed is really a positive up there. However the hands of stone, imo hold him back from being a real long term solution there.

So looking at things long term, as a fourth liner he needs to specialize in something. Not just be a warm "Nodl" body. If he can develop a good PK game, and be given the opportunity to do so, I like Raffl's chances.
- flyer_nutter

I would no mind a line of Cousins-Laughton-Raffl on the 4th line next year....

Haha man, I wanted Hartnell off the team for a few years now. He is either on fire, or completely worthless and almost a liability.

Hartnell is a prime-time trade candidate for me around the deadline or draft. Edmonton desperately needs grit, and a veteran influence. As does Winnipeg, and a few other teams. His hot streak now might make him trade-able. Although the NMC may be an issue of course.
- flyer_nutter

Issue. IMO with the Flyers in Playoff position, they wont trade Hartnell. I believe he would waive for Toronto or Edmonton, but right now, I only see him moving in the off-season, and you likely wont get much.... Maybe 2 2nds and a 3rd.

Issue. IMO with the Flyers in Playoff position, they wont trade Hartnell. I believe he would waive for Toronto or Edmonton, but right now, I only see him moving in the off-season, and you likely wont get much.... Maybe 2 2nds and a 3rd.
- youarewrong

I don't think hartnell, Vinny or Streit would get much of anything from anybody. Moving any of those players would be more of a salary dump than anything.

Unless the Flyers are moving salary to get a better player back, they're better off just keeping these guys.

Issue. IMO with the Flyers in Playoff position, they wont trade Hartnell. I believe he would waive for Toronto or Edmonton, but right now, I only see him moving in the off-season, and you likely wont get much.... Maybe 2 2nds and a 3rd.
- youarewrong

They wont, just like they wont give LeCavalier's minutes to a younger kid. Or more than likely why guys like Rosehill continue to get time, because they are veterans.

Its always, all in to win instead of objectively looking at your chances, and realizing those players who you are giving the minutes to, probably wont be here, or contributing when you truly are ready to establish yourself as an upper level team in the league. Instead of hoping on some Cinderella hot streak, and "anything can happen".

The double edged blade.

Issue. IMO with the Flyers in Playoff position, they wont trade Hartnell. I believe he would waive for Toronto or Edmonton, but right now, I only see him moving in the off-season, and you likely wont get much.... Maybe 2 2nds and a 3rd.
- youarewrong

As well, I am personally really excited about the draft this season.

I think its a perfect time to set a long term course for the team, especially with it being in Philly. With them rebounding it seems Holmgren may stay on as GM, but I really would have loved to see Hextall put his stamp on the team.

VdV has been good on the PK, but that was an awful mistake.
- Feanor

I suppose he's been pretty good, but I'm not sure what he brings to this lineup. He's just another Nodl ... a dime a dozen player. Surely there's a player out there who can do more?

Grossmann is another one that the Flyers have to look to replace. I love the guy's heart, but his reaction time to loose pucks must be the slowest in the league.

They wont, just like they wont give LeCavalier's minutes to a younger kid. Or more than likely why guys like Rosehill continue to get time, because they are veterans.

Its always, all in to win instead of objectively looking at your chances, and realizing those players who you are giving the minutes to, probably wont be here, or contributing when you truly are ready to establish yourself as an upper level team in the league. Instead of hoping on some Cinderella hot streak, and "anything can happen".

The double edged blade.
- flyer_nutter

I agree with you. The top 3 lines should be Raffl-G-Jake, Harts-Schenn-Simmer, Downie-Couts-Read. The problem is that it alienates Vinny. That's tough to do to a veteran scorer you just signed for 5 years.

Just some food for thought, through 48 games last season vs. 48 games this season...
Season W L OTL P GF GA GD PP PK
12-13 23 22 3 49 133 141 -8 21.6 (3rd) 85.9 (5th)
13-14 24 19 5 53 128 136 -8 18.7(16th) 84.4 (8th)

GP GAA SV% SO
Mason 36 2.48 .917 1
Bryzgalov 40 2.79 .900 1

Not much difference in the overall team performance is there? I'd argue the coaching change hasn't done much and if you look at the stats, it is a valid argument. If it wasn't for Mason this season outplaying Bryz from last season and the rest of the division sucking it up, the Flyers would be outside of the playoffs looking in.

I suppose he's been pretty good, but I'm not sure what he brings to this lineup. He's just another Nodl ... a dime a dozen player. Surely there's a player out there who can do more?

Grossmann is another one that the Flyers have to look to replace. I love the guy's heart, but his reaction time to loose pucks must be the slowest in the league.
- FlyerGuy

Well the thing with Jean Claude Van Damme is you kind of know who he is. He is 26 and has primarily been a minor leaguer. Its one of my biggest knocks with Holmgren. The guy (frank)ing loves those "Nodl" types. Just warm bodies who wont hurt you, but do little to excel in a certain area or help you win. Just "neutral" players.

Its not on the priority list, but if they could get an Ott or Fiddler as Bill mentioned to help stabilize that fourth line and actually bring them even a sniff close to where it was with Lappy/Betts, it would really help things.

As well, I am personally really excited about the draft this season.

I think its a perfect time to set a long term course for the team, especially with it being in Philly. With them rebounding it seems Holmgren may stay on as GM, but I really would have loved to see Hextall put his stamp on the team.
- flyer_nutter

I sure hope not...

I agree with you. The top 3 lines should be Raffl-G-Jake, Harts-Schenn-Simmer, Downie-Couts-Read. The problem is that it alienates Vinny. That's tough to do to a veteran scorer you just signed for 5 years.
- PhillySportsGuy

It wont be done. Just like they wouldn't think about bringing back Timonen for 1 more year and buying out Streit.

Would make them look even more stupid.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Lucky for One, Unlucky Not to Get Two
- bmeltzer

why no voracek in the so?

As well, I am personally really excited about the draft this season.

I think its a perfect time to set a long term course for the team, especially with it being in Philly. With them rebounding it seems Holmgren may stay on as GM, but I really would have loved to see Hextall put his stamp on the team.
- flyer_nutter

I don't know. They aren't exactly a lock for the playoffs and I think if they miss the playoffs again, Homer's gonna be out.

The one thing that we just don't know is what the hell we're going to do about upgrading the defense, or filling the holes that will be there once guys retire or move on.

It is entirely possible -- not likely, but possible -- that Baby Schenn or Sean Couturier will be sacrificed to get an impactful defenseman in here, which will alleviate the logjam at center.

I'm not saying that's what I'd do. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't move Couturier and probably wouldn't move Baby Schenn for all but a select number of players.

But if the Flyers think they can win big, perhaps this season or next, except for the lack of a defenseman...somebody would have to go in order to get one.

Well the thing with Jean Claude Van Damme is you kind of know who he is. He is 26 and has primarily been a minor leaguer. Its one of my biggest knocks with Holmgren. The guy (frank)ing loves those "Nodl" types. Just warm bodies who wont hurt you, but do little to excel in a certain area or help you win. Just "neutral" players.

Its not on the priority list, but if they could get an Ott or Fiddler as Bill mentioned to help stabilize that fourth line and actually bring them even a sniff close to where it was with Lappy/Betts, it would really help things.
- flyer_nutter

I hate Ott, but yeah ... that would certainly be an upgrade.

The only good thing is that Homer was smart enough to get Lappy and Betts in the 1st place, so at least he knows what we need.

A line of G, Vinny and Jake and you'll have them all on the perimeter waiting to take a shot. Raffl goes to the net and often drags 2 or 3 defenders with him.

1 so-so game and he's persona non grata.
- wolfhounds

i still grata raffl

Just some food for thought, through 48 games last season vs. 48 games this season...
Season W L OTL P GF GA GD PP PK
12-13 23 22 3 49 133 141 -8 21.6 (3rd) 85.9 (5th)
13-14 24 19 5 53 128 136 -8 18.7(16th) 84.4 (8th)

GP GAA SV% SO
Mason 36 2.48 .917 1
Bryzgalov 40 2.79 .900 1

Not much difference in the overall team performance is there? I'd argue the coaching change hasn't done much and if you look at the stats, it is a valid argument. If it wasn't for Mason this season outplaying Bryz from last season and the rest of the division sucking it up, the Flyers would be outside of the playoffs looking in.
- aantny88

Im happy with Mason. He was a top tier goaltender at the start of the season, and has kind of faded to average. Think that save % was something like .897 in December.

I don't buy that whole thing where a goalie is excused from letting in goals, we are shown on a nightly basis what those "unrealistic" saves can do for a team. However if he can be a good guy in the room, providing average play with some of those hot streaks for the next 5-8 years, I will be happy.

Give him a 2-3 year deal in the off-season, AFTER you have a chance to see him in the playoffs. Let him prove his worth, much like what the Habs did with Price and Subban.

Having depth at center is no bad thing.
Right now VL either plays wing or they create a 4th scoring line with VL centering
McGinn and someone else that is not a face puncher.

There will be injuries and VL can be moved up when that happens.

Moving G, B Schenn or Couts away from center right now is a worse option, IMO .
- Marc D

ty marc

It's worth noting that the guy had a broken back.

That's not hyperbole. He had a non displaced back fracture.

With that injury and at his age, I'm thinking the Olympic break will be good for him.
- johndewar

yes