He did draft Kadri but there was word that he didn't want to. It was all the rest of the Leafs brass and scouting that forced the pick.
- Iggysbff

You think someone forced Burkes hand?

Would you guys have any interest in Wideman?
- TandA4Flames

Would we?

Hell yeah, our D is so slow, but we got burned on the JVR for Luke Schenn deal pretty bad, & I can't see it happening, our management likes having 4 young centers & a slow D.

Your definition of "staged" and mine is different...but anyway....
- The-O-G

OK well my definition of 'staged' is when two guys who have no hostilities towards each other, fight. Mainly to justify their existence in the NHL, (and to give the crowd a show).

Fights that aren't staged are ones that are meant to change the momentum of a game or due to actual hatred for the other player.

From the coaches point of view, the fights weren't staged, because those two genuinely hate each other. But from the players point of view, those fights were as staged as you can get.

Most of the fights broke up on their own.. without the need for a ref. It was almost like, 'ok, we got a few punches in each.. we've shown that we are willing to go... let's end it before one of us gets really hurt'.

Like I said....when Bieksa didn't drop his gloves with Westgarth, Westgarth stopped. And McGratton has zero track record of ever jumping anyone.

John Scott is a pure A-hole, and an exception to the norm. Not to mention that all happened during the course of a game. John Scott didn't attack Kessel off the opening face off.

I would say it's reasonable to conclude that nothing would have happened with the Sedins out there. Or maybe torts could have put Sestito on the wing with the Sedins?
- The-O-G

There is another point to this story, which many are not aware of. The Nucks tried to take Calif. by force. They were looking for fights in all the games: Kings, Sharks, Ducks and Coyotes. Torts was obviously orchestrating this in an attempt to Wake his team up and make them tougher. Next time the Nucks come to LA I hope Suter does the same thing as Hartley. Hartley made a statement, and beat the Nucks to the punch. No pun intended. Nolan laid a hard legal check on one of the sisters and then Bieksa jumped him. I know Nolan is not afraid of Bieska, Nolan is a fairly tough kid and can fight well. Why not turtle and get the Power play. I thought it was smart. Screw Torts and the Nucks!

And yeh where are all the Nuck fans that were trolling the King sites giving Nolan a rash for not fighting. Bieksa had his tail deep between his legs when faced With Westy. Nolan at least drew a Power play.

There is another point to this story, which many are not aware of. The Nucks tried to take Calif. by force. They were looking for fights in all the games: Kings, Sharks, Ducks and Coyotes. Torts was obviously orchestrating this in an attempt to Wake his team up and make them tougher. Next time the Nucks come to LA I hope Suter does the same thing as Hartley. Hartley made a statement, and beat the Nucks to the punch. No pun intended. Nolan laid a hard legal check on one of the sisters and then Bieksa jumped him. I know Nolan is not afraid of Bieska, Nolan is a fairly tough kid and can fight well. Why not turtle and get the Power play. I thought it was smart. Screw Torts and the Nucks!
- SRC

Hahaha...you're right, it's actually pretty ironic/funny.

Especially because all of the Nucks fans were up in arms when Nolan didn't oblige Sestito and drop his gloves last week, he was called a "turtle".

Then Westgarth wants to have a go with Bieksa and he is nowhere to be found. (luckily for him Westgarth has some class and doesn't proceed to punch Bieksa anyways ALA Sestito.)

He's not innocent, I don't think anyone thinks he is. But I don't expect him to come out and admit it either.

IMO when Torts tossed out the tough guys it was on. If he put the Sedins out nothing would have happened (except a Canucks goal more than likely) Even Westgarth didn't jump Bieksa when Bieksa didn't drop his gloves, he certainly wouldn't have fought Daniel Sedin.
- The-O-G

You don't know that, ask John Scott if he would fight if Sedin was on the ice. Some of these goons will fight anyone just to get the ice time and paycheck. Especially when the coach asks them too (which he had to, even if he didn't it was definitely implied).

There is another point to this story, which many are not aware of. The Nucks tried to take Calif. by force. They were looking for fights in all the games: Kings, Sharks, Ducks and Coyotes. Torts was obviously orchestrating this in an attempt to Wake his team up and make them tougher. Next time the Nucks come to LA I hope Suter does the same thing as Hartley. Hartley made a statement, and beat the Nucks to the punch. No pun intended. Nolan laid a hard legal check on one of the sisters and then Bieksa jumped him. I know Nolan is not afraid of Bieska, Nolan is a fairly tough kid and can fight well. Why not turtle and get the Power play. I thought it was smart. Screw Torts and the Nucks!

And yeh where are all the Nuck fans that were trolling the King sites giving Nolan a rash for not fighting. Bieksa had his tail deep between his legs when faced With Westy. Nolan at least drew a Power play.
- SRC

And then Richards & Carter missed a shift while sharing a 6 pack, oh sorry, still not over those guys

You think someone forced Burkes hand?
- whipper334

clearly someone did for the bobby ryan pick. The article claimed he didn't want him.

Also being in Calgary I'd think you guys would have seen that Edm's method of being last overall every year doesn't necessarily work. The one thing burke was good at was bringing younger nhl talent in. Picks are great, but most of them don't pan out. You need to surround those 1st overalls with NHL talent. (edm has been awful at drafting in the second third etc and bringing in NHL talent around their "starS")

If anything, this proves my point.

Hardly any hostility before the game.

This wasn't a case of the players hating each other. This was a case of the coaches hating each other.

Hartley has not started a similar lineup against any other team this year.. then he does it against Torts. Considering their history, it's pretty obvious why.

Crap carried over from their time in NY and Atlanta. It wasn't about the players, or the 'teams', it was about two coaches that hate each other.

So, yes, from the aspect of the players, it was staged.
- Charliebox

Dude, c'mon. These teams have played 2 other times this year and Hartley didn't start that line either of those games. But to say there is no hatred, you don't know these 2 teams. 3 games this season and McGratz and Sestito have scraped 3rd times. Trust me these teams get up for each other. Its deeply ingrained and it wouldn't take much for a new guy to sense that.

OK well my definition of 'staged' is when two guys who have no hostilities towards each other, fight. Mainly to justify their existence in the NHL, (and to give the crowd a show).

Fights that aren't staged are ones that are meant to change the momentum of a game or due to actual hatred for the other player.

From the coaches point of view, the fights weren't staged, because those two genuinely hate each other. But from the players point of view, those fights were as staged as you can get.

Most of the fights broke up on their own.. without the need for a ref. It was almost like, 'ok, we got a few punches in each.. we've shown that we are willing to go... let's end it before one of us gets really hurt'.
- Charliebox

OK fair enough, I get where you are coming from.

I think from the Flames perspective maybe there wasn't genuine hate amongst the players, but there is a larger meaning here.

The Flames are in a rut right now. I think this whole thing shows all the players in the organization that losing won't be accepted, and that they will never go down without a fight.

You don't know that, ask John Scott if he would fight if Sedin was on the ice. Some of these goons will fight anyone just to get the ice time and paycheck. Especially when the coach asks them too (which he had to, even if he didn't it was definitely implied).
- Steven_Dean

John Scott is a loser and an exception to the norm. I've said a few times on here why I think Grats & West-G would never do this. Especially at the start of a game. Very different.

OG pretty much nailed everything that I'd say about the brawl, so I'll just give him my vote instead of adding my two-cents.

I don't see us getting Kadri... I thought if any team would target him, it would've been the avs. Something like liles Kadri and a pick for statsny màde sense for me, but now I think he stays a leaf this year.

Gardner could be nice for the right price (no picks or prospects)

I think Giordano is being seriously undervalued here. If we trade him there's gonna be 20 other teams with serious interest. The starting price would have to be Reilly to even keep us on the phone IMO. Unless that return makes me dance for joy and keeps me smiling for years to come, we hang up the phone. He is to valuable both as a player and a leader on this team.

Burke is high on both players, and when you can acquire either without creating new holes you do it. That said, Gardiner is likely the only of the two the Flames (could) afford to make a move for...but I just dont think the two teams can help each other out unless Burke fleeces Nonis.
- Colin Dambrauskas

Biggest issue is how do you get Kadri or Gardiner without making a hole? For Kadri the Leafs would have to get Monahan which is not happening this lifetime. Meaning that Calgary would have to offer Toronto a replacement older top 6 and their 2014 1st to pry him off the Leafs. Again though doesn't make sense for Calgary to do at all.

Gardiner is a little more possible but to me unless Calgary is willing to part with Monahan or Giordano I wouldn't move Gardiner at all. Even for Wideman+ IMO.

For Toronto, if we are moving one or both of Kadri or Gardiner we would need a minimum of one of Mohanan, Giordano or their 2014 1st.

I am curious though, if Calgary fans are serious about getting Kadri or Gardiner, would there be an offer including one of the top 3 above that you would do? What do you think Colin?

clearly someone did for the bobby ryan pick. The article claimed he didn't want him.

Also being in Calgary I'd think you guys would have seen that Edm's method of being last overall every year doesn't necessarily work. The one thing burke was good at was bringing younger nhl talent in. Picks are great, but most of them don't pan out. You need to surround those 1st overalls with NHL talent.(edm has been awful at drafting in the second third etc and bringing in NHL talent around their "starS")
- Shteven

Since they got rid of Prendergrast they have been doing much better drafting. As for not picking guys in the later rounds, how about looking at the stats since 2010 on how many guys outside of the first round are actually playing today. Very few are playing much less making an impact.

John Scott is a loser and an exception to the norm. I've said a few times on here why I think Grats & West-G would never do this. Especially at the start of a game. Very different.
- The-O-G

Which is fair and I agree but you answered your own question of should Torts have put the 1st line out when you said "I think". You can't be 100% sure and neither could Vancouver IMO.

Biggest issue is how do you get Kadri or Gardiner without making a hole? For Kadri the Leafs would have to get Monahan which is not happening this lifetime. Meaning that Calgary would have to offer Toronto a replacement older top 6 and their 2014 1st to pry him off the Leafs. Again though doesn't make sense for Calgary to do at all.

Gardiner is a little more possible but to me unless Calgary is willing to part with Monahan or Giordano I wouldn't move Gardiner at all. Even for Wideman+ IMO.

For Toronto, if we are moving one or both of Kadri or Gardiner we would need a minimum of one of Mohanan, Giordano or their 2014 1st.

I am curious though, if Calgary fans are serious about getting Kadri or Gardiner, would there be an offer including one of the top 3 above that you would do? What do you think Colin?
- Steven_Dean

I would offer our 2014 first rounder for Kadri.....

I might get lambasted on here for saying that but I honestly would.

I wouldn't for Gardiner, but I don't think we would have to move Mono, Gio, or our First this year to get him either as you are suggesting.

Hudler, Wideman, Glencross, Backlund.

I think there are other pieces, plus maybe a "lesser" prospect or draft pick which could get this done. Especially if the Flames retained some salary.

Which is fair and I agree but you answered your own question of should Torts have put the 1st line out when you said "I think". You can't be 100% sure and neither could Vancouver IMO.
- Steven_Dean

You can never be 100% sure you're right.

But like I said, if you rolled Sedin-Sedin-Sestito.....problem solved.

Biggest issue is how do you get Kadri or Gardiner without making a hole? For Kadri the Leafs would have to get Monahan which is not happening this lifetime. Meaning that Calgary would have to offer Toronto a replacement older top 6 and their 2014 1st to pry him off the Leafs. Again though doesn't make sense for Calgary to do at all.

Gardiner is a little more possible but to me unless Calgary is willing to part with Monahan or Giordano I wouldn't move Gardiner at all. Even for Wideman+ IMO.

For Toronto, if we are moving one or both of Kadri or Gardiner we would need a minimum of one of Mohanan, Giordano or their 2014 1st.

I am curious though, if Calgary fans are serious about getting Kadri or Gardiner, would there be an offer including one of the top 3 above that you would do? What do you think Colin?
- Steven_Dean

For Kadri, yes...Gardiner, no....though not Monahan unless its Kadri +

Biggest issue is how do you get Kadri or Gardiner without making a hole? For Kadri the Leafs would have to get Monahan which is not happening this lifetime. Meaning that Calgary would have to offer Toronto a replacement older top 6 and their 2014 1st to pry him off the Leafs. Again though doesn't make sense for Calgary to do at all.

Gardiner is a little more possible but to me unless Calgary is willing to part with Monahan or Giordano I wouldn't move Gardiner at all. Even for Wideman+ IMO.

For Toronto, if we are moving one or both of Kadri or Gardiner we would need a minimum of one of Mohanan, Giordano or their 2014 1st.

I am curious though, if Calgary fans are serious about getting Kadri or Gardiner, would there be an offer including one of the top 3 above that you would do? What do you think Colin?
- Steven_Dean

From where I sit, Gio is worth both Kadri and Gardiner. Maybe we add a 2nd but not much else. Gardiner still has trouble cracking your line up I don't think people really know yet what Kadri is. Gio is having an incredible season and really embrassing the leadership role. He's amongst the top D men for ppg and is on a favourable contract beyond this season.

I would trade Wideman but he is he only one of the 3 you mentioned that is possible imo.

Dude, c'mon. These teams have played 2 other times this year and Hartley didn't start that line either of those games. But to say there is no hatred, you don't know these 2 teams. 3 games this season and McGratz and Sestito have scraped 3rd times. Trust me these teams get up for each other. Its deeply ingrained and it wouldn't take much for a new guy to sense that.
- TandA4Flames

Who else, other than two goons-that-can't-play-hockey, have scrapped multiple times this season, or in the past couple years?

Those two are just justifying their existence by fighting.

They are probably buddies in the offseason.


Hired journeymen goons are there to 'protect' the stars, but at the end of the day, they normally just end up fighting each other in staged scraps.

I'm a sens fan and we had McScrappen here for a few seasons. I can say, without a doubt, that he is the worst hockey player in the NHL. The guy wouldn't even crack an ECHL lineup based on his actual hockey playing skills. Sestito is a bit better, but still would never be in the NHL if it wasn't for his fists. These guys know their role, and they also have a ton of respect for the other goons-that-can't-play-hockey on other teams.

There is hardly the hatred between those guys that there is between two gritty 3rd line guys who drop the gloves due to a late hit or cheap shot.

You think someone forced Burkes hand?
- whipper334

Yup. Happens. Bobby Ryan?

From where I sit, Gio is worth both Kadri and Gardiner. Maybe we add a 2nd but not much else. Gardiner still has trouble cracking your line up I don't think people really know yet what Kadri is. Gio is having an incredible season and really embrassing the leadership role. He's amongst the top D men for ppg and is on a favourable contract beyond this season.

I would trade Wideman but he is he only one of the 3 you mentioned that is possible imo.
- TandA4Flames

Gio and 2nd for Kadri & Gardiner isn't far off. Especially considering the 2nd will be 31st-33rd overall more than likely.

Gio is solidifying himself as a legit #1 D man in the league. Given his salary he is one of the best bargains in the league as well.

Biggest issue is how do you get Kadri or Gardiner without making a hole? For Kadri the Leafs would have to get Monahan which is not happening this lifetime. Meaning that Calgary would have to offer Toronto a replacement older top 6 and their 2014 1st to pry him off the Leafs. Again though doesn't make sense for Calgary to do at all.

Gardiner is a little more possible but to me unless Calgary is willing to part with Monahan or Giordano I wouldn't move Gardiner at all. Even for Wideman+ IMO.

For Toronto, if we are moving one or both of Kadri or Gardiner we would need a minimum of one of Mohanan, Giordano or their 2014 1st.

I am curious though, if Calgary fans are serious about getting Kadri or Gardiner, would there be an offer including one of the top 3 above that you would do? What do you think Colin?
- Steven_Dean

I just puked in my mouth. There isn't one leaf on the roster worth monahan you'd need to package a couple... Even then, no. Giordano would be your best dman, not bashing just a fact. We could get way more than just Kadri....what would it cost for your janitor? Gaudreau and our 2015 1st?? Good grief

Elliotte Friedman
‏@FriedgeHNIC
Expect a contract extension sometime today for Matt Stajan in Calgary.

Elliotte Friedman
‏@FriedgeHNIC
Expect a contract extension sometime today for Matt Stajan in Calgary.
- Lahey

I feel like someone called this...