no, they are being out hustled, outplayed, the other team wants it more, it appears that way.
- puckhead17

You will always look like you're being outhustled when another team's roster is, from top to bottom, faster than yours -- for example, for the standpoint of skating, every defenseman the Hurricanes dressed last night is faster than every single defenseman on our roster with the exception of Coburn and Gus...and Gus isn't even playing

It's the NHL... 99% of the players got there by being willing to out-work and out-want everybody on the way up... you can count the Semins and Wellwoods in the league on one hand, and AFAIK, the Flyers don't have any of those.

Poor positioning, lack of structured support and general poor decision-making are making them look slower than they are, and further behind the play than they should be. I guess the end-result could seem like a Carlylian lack of "compete", but it's mostly a symptom of playing like individuals vs playing as a team.
- Tomahawk

not having any would have to be compensated by working harder & on the latter part of your post, is this coaching again?

It's the NHL... 99% of the players got there by being willing to out-work and out-want everybody on the way up... you can count the Semins and Wellwoods in the league on one hand, and AFAIK, the Flyers don't have any of those.

Poor positioning, lack of structured support and general poor decision-making are making them look slower than they are, and further behind the play than they should be. I guess the end-result could seem like a Carlylian lack of "compete", but it's mostly a symptom of playing like individuals vs playing as a team.
- Tomahawk

A lot of this may be true, however the amount of board battles they lose is ridiculous. The 3rd Carolina goal was easily avoidable if Coburn gets the puck out of the zone like he should have...yet he gets tied up along the wall, loses the battle, puck goes to the point and bang, that's all she wrote. This team seems to have a lot of absent minded players, with low hockey IQ and the amount of penalties they take is ridiculous...hasn't seemed to matter whether it is Chief or Lavy behind the bench to correct that issue.

You will always look like you're being outhustled when another team's roster is, from top to bottom, faster than yours -- for example, for the standpoint of skating, every defenseman the Hurricanes dressed last night is faster than every single defenseman on our roster with the exception of Coburn and Gus...and Gus isn't even playing
- AllInForFlyers

because Homer prefers big slow D men?

because Homer like big slow D men?
- puckhead17

Exactly!

Normally, it's very upsetting when the Flyers allow a late goal to lose in regulation, but they simply didn't deserve to win last night. They were totally outworked.

The most infuriating part was that 2 goals were scored because of bad individual plays by defenseman. Mez playing too far off Semin and Luke Schenn being unable to play a bouncing puck. I understand Luke doesn't have great hands, but, in that situation, he needs to just grab Gerbe and take a penalty. You can't let a skilled player go for a breakaway when you know the Canes are a poor PP team.

People keep clamoring for an offensive defenseman, but, in reality, we need more two-way defenseman. This team has too many defenseman who are one way players. Guys like Mez and Streit have shown the ability to score and make plays, but struggle mightily in their own end. Guys like Schenn and Grossmann provide very little on offense. They have even struggled in their own zone this season.

Timonen is the only legit, two way defenseman. Coburn can at least skate. He won't display good puck skills, but his skating adds another dimension.

I just hate having to hold my breath when Mez and Streit are in their own zone and roll my eyes when Grossmann and Schenn get the puck at the point with room to shoot or make a play.

because Homer like big slow D men?
- puckhead17

I mean, we all know the theory: Over a seven-game series, size supposedly matters. Big, strong guys don't get weaker, but small, speedy guys, in theory, slow down.

Again: I don't know if that stuff is true or not. I fully realize that there are examples that people will be able to dig up from either side.

For me...I'd inject more speed/hockey sense into the Flyers' D, which I realize is easier said than done

not having any would have to be compensated by working harder & on the latter part of your post, is this coaching again?
- puckhead17

The coach can only lay out the plan and preach it's merits at every turn... then it's up to the players to be positionally disciplined and to resist the temptation to freelance outside of the system. The latter part is where I think a Pronger would really help... he can intimidate/scare guys into line, where maybe a Kimmo, G or Hartsy wouldn't really be able to pull that off.

I agree... I'm just pretty frustrated by his regression. It was a tough pass to handle, but not impossible.

I think everyone would agree for the most part he's been terrible this year. Disappointing since he played well last year.
- PLindbergh31

Yes he has been. I was loving him last year and seeing how he has been horrible at times and decent at best is frustrating for sure

Normally, it's very upsetting when the Flyers allow a late goal to lose in regulation, but they simply didn't deserve to win last night. They were totally outworked.

The most infuriating part was that 2 goals were scored because of bad individual plays by defenseman. Mez playing too far off Semin and Luke Schenn being unable to play a bouncing puck. I understand Luke doesn't have great hands, but, in that situation, he needs to just grab Gerbe and take a penalty. You can't let a skilled player go for a breakaway when you know the Canes are a poor PP team.

People keep clamoring for an offensive defenseman, but, in reality, we need more two-way defenseman. This team has too many defenseman who are one way players. Guys like Mez and Streit have shown the ability to score and make plays, but struggle mightily in their own end. Guys like Schenn and Grossmann provide very little on offense. They have even struggled in their own zone this season.

Timonen is the only legit, two way defenseman. Coburn can at least skate. He won't display good puck skills, but his skating adds another dimension.

I just hate having to hold my breath when Mez and Streit are in their own zone and roll my eyes when Grossmann and Schenn get the puck at the point with room to shoot or make a play.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree with all your points, great post!!

I personally would choose, (if it were possible), to acquire another Coburn type, size, mobility, & can play more then 20 minutes.

The coach can only lay out the plan and preach it's merits at every turn... then it's up to the players to be positionally disciplined and to resist the temptation to freelance outside of the system. The latter part is where I think a Pronger would really help... he can intimidate/scare guys into line, where maybe a Kimmo, G or Hartsy wouldn't really be able to pull that off.
- Tomahawk

Kimmo's words matter to many, I believe that, & he was my choice for the "C", but this team is in love with having a Clarke clone, so it was obvious of what they did.

I agree with all your points, great post!!

I personally would choose, (if it were possible), to acquire another Coburn type, size, mobility, & can play more then 20 minutes.
- puckhead17

I understand that two-way guys cost a lot and I know teams don't just give those guys away. I'm more just venting about the team. I'm willing to be patient, but last night really put in perspective some of the dumb moves this team has made.

It would be great to have a guy like Carle. It would have been great if JVR brought us back more than a guy like Luke Schenn. Not asking for an all star but a top 4 two way defenseman would have been reasonable return for JVR. Those two moves have killed our defense.

Like I said, I'm just venting and I understand the situation. I'm willing to be patient with the young guys coming up or make a move if it makes sense for the long term. I'm not advocating trading Couts for Yandle at all costs.

People keep clamoring for an offensive defenseman, but, in reality, we need more two-way defenseman. This team has too many defenseman who are one way players. Guys like Mez and Streit have shown the ability to score and make plays, but struggle mightily in their own end. Guys like Schenn and Grossmann provide very little on offense. They have even struggled in their own zone this season.
- PhillySportsGuy

One of the most salient points I've seen made here in a long time... they need Hjalmarssons and Oduyas more than they need Campbells and Byfugliens.

Kimmo's words matter to many, I believe that, & he was my choice for the "C", but this team is in love with having a Clarke clone, so it was obvious of what they did.
- puckhead17

Kimmo's like the old uncle you feel bad about disappointing... Pronger is like Ghengis Khan.

Kimmo's words matter to many, I believe that, & he was my choice for the "C", but this team is in love with having a Clarke clone, so it was obvious of what they did.
- puckhead17

I agree. I would have rather seen them give Giroux an 'A' and ask him to produce points. Ever since Toews and Crosby became captain, every team thinks its smart to name its young scorer the captain. Every team wants to have the next Sakic or Yzerman and have a captain for 20 years.

A lot of this may be true, however the amount of board battles they lose is ridiculous. The 3rd Carolina goal was easily avoidable if Coburn gets the puck out of the zone like he should have...yet he gets tied up along the wall, loses the battle, puck goes to the point and bang, that's all she wrote. This team seems to have a lot of absent minded players, with low hockey IQ and the amount of penalties they take is ridiculous...hasn't seemed to matter whether it is Chief or Lavy behind the bench to correct that issue.
- aantny88

You can point to a specific person, but people being tired and people making mistakes are not the reason an entire team plays this awful for 50 minutes a game.

This is a team that cannot keep the ball rolling for 60 straight minutes. When the passing is crisp and flyers and making good pinches and they out will opponents along the boards they win games with ease.

The problem is they are slow getting down the ice and into the zone. They are not applying pressure on the defensemen and allowing them to make easy passes out of the zone. They are sitting back in the defensive zone and collapsing on the goalie too quickly. The forwards are not putting enough (or any at all) pressure on the defensemen high in their own zone. Which is making their defensemen tired in the zone and they are making slow decisions and are being forced into making bad plays and even worse clears out of the zone.

The team went from being confident in the defensive zone with 0 confidence in the offensive zone. To being confident in all three zones when playing their game. No they are confident in the offensive zone but have 0 confidence in their own zone.

This team has no issues when all is put together and passing is crisp. When the defensemen have the confidence that they can skate a few strides and look over the ice before making the first pass out of the zone because the forwards are keeping equal pressure down at the other end of the ice.

The team appears to not be skating, but it really seems like they are not thinking the game quick enough and that is completely a confidence issue, like it was early in the year.

One of the most salient points I've seen made here in a long time... they need Hjalmarssons and Oduyas more than they need Campbells and Byfugliens.
- Tomahawk

Exactly. Thats a very solid pairing for Chicago. It allows them to keep Keith and Seabrook together and form a top 5 pairing in the entire NHL.

Exactly. Thats a very solid pairing for Chicago. It allows them to keep Keith and Seabrook together and form a top 5 pairing in the entire NHL.
- PhillySportsGuy

Keith and Seabrook are super-dependable defensively, too... Leddy's a two-way guy as well... there aren't any Mark Streits to hide over there.

I am of season ticket holder of 12 years I am 37 and have never seen a Flyers Stanley Cup win...I want to keep my season tickets mainly for my kids but this team and organization just isnt exciting anymore. I got the email this morning about being an early bird renewal and I laughed. The team is boring and has no identity. Everytime I watch the post game press conferences its Giroux being soft spoken Simmonds being soft spoken Mason zzz there isnt an exciting player on or off the ice. Frankly I can go on Stub Hub or CL and get tickets cheaper than what I pay. There really isnt a benefit to being a STH anymore. This team right now is so poorly constructed even Angelo Cataldi who knows little about hockey picked up on it this morning. They are again mediocre. They have no line chemistry, too many natural centers playing wing, VL playing out of postion, Downie playing poorly and no first line LW Raffl isnt the answer to give space and time to Giroux..They have little cap space and very few NHL ready prospsects. I have been drinking the orange coolaide for 12 years but this is the last year for season tickets I hope Homer gets relieved of his duties and Hexy has a plan to turn this organization around but as long as Ed is around the theory of leading the league in pims and trying to win a Cup in the same season isnt going to work. It hasnt worked in 40 years.

You can point to a specific person, but people being tired and people making mistakes are not the reason an entire team plays this awful for 50 minutes a game.

This is a team that cannot keep the ball rolling for 60 straight minutes. When the passing is crisp and flyers and making good pinches and they out will opponents along the boards they win games with ease.

The problem is they are slow getting down the ice and into the zone. They are not applying pressure on the defensemen and allowing them to make easy passes out of the zone. They are sitting back in the defensive zone and collapsing on the goalie too quickly. The forwards are not putting enough (or any at all) pressure on the defensemen high in their own zone. Which is making their defensemen tired in the zone and they are making slow decisions and are being forced into making bad plays and even worse clears out of the zone.

The team went from being confident in the defensive zone with 0 confidence in the offensive zone. To being confident in all three zones when playing their game. No they are confident in the offensive zone but have 0 confidence in their own zone.

This team has no issues when all is put together and passing is crisp. When the defensemen have the confidence that they can skate a few strides and look over the ice before making the first pass out of the zone because the forwards are keeping equal pressure down at the other end of the ice.

The team appears to not be skating, but it really seems like they are not thinking the game quick enough and that is completely a confidence issue, like it was early in the year.
- FlyersSteve118

I see it as a confidence issue as well. I believe the forwards have a lot to do with it. There were numerous times where the defenseman turn with the puck and have an opportunity to move up ice. They turn back because no one is creating a passing lane. That's when things start to unravel. The defenseman don't have the ability to make stretch passes or hit narrow seams. The forwards need to help them. Even if that means sacrificing some offense.

They need to become more unselfish. It may take time to move the puck up ice and not allow the Flyers to get a good scoring chance, but it may give the next line a more favorable starting position.

Keith and Seabrook are super-dependable defensively, too... Leddy's a two-way guy as well... there aren't any Mark Streits to hide over there.
- Tomahawk

I know. I liken their defense to the Flyers of early 2010-11. Oduya-Hjalmarsson is a lot like Mez-O'Donnell. They are the third pair, but are more like a second pair.

The difference is of course age of those 2 units.

again, what could Luke do???

the pass came to him & he had one of the fastest players on the other team bearing in on him, if he misses it & he did, the only thing he could have done (should have done) was pull Gerbe down so he doesn't breakaway, I would have preferred him to do that, but not much anyone could do in that situation.
- puckhead17

I think giving a player a clear breakaway is better than giving them a penalty shot.

I think giving a player a clear breakaway is better than giving them a penalty shot.
- Feanor

It's not a penalty shot because Gerbe hadn't played the puck yet. It would just be interference.

Gonna be a real test tonight kiddies, Columbus is red hot

I would love to see this lineup tonight, but of course there's probably no chance it happens:

First off waive Gill, and bring up McGinn

Lines
Raffl or Downie-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Downie or Raffl
McGinn-VL-Hall

D
Coburn-Timonen
Streit-Schenn
Mezaros-Gus

far as I'm concerned Grossmann could use a night off and I can't see McGinn not being an upgrade over VDV or Rosehill.

I understand that two-way guys cost a lot and I know teams don't just give those guys away. I'm more just venting about the team. I'm willing to be patient, but last night really put in perspective some of the dumb moves this team has made.

It would be great to have a guy like Carle. It would have been great if JVR brought us back more than a guy like Luke Schenn. Not asking for an all star but a top 4 two way defenseman would have been reasonable return for JVR. Those two moves have killed our defense.

Like I said, I'm just venting and I understand the situation. I'm willing to be patient with the young guys coming up or make a move if it makes sense for the long term. I'm not advocating trading Couts for Yandle at all costs.
- PhillySportsGuy

in bold, is sounding redundant, but, its all true, it has hurt this team moving forward.

and if we stay in the hunt, there's really no reason to tear it down, but we remain a middle of the pack team.