I think giving a player a clear breakaway is better than giving them a penalty shot.
- Feanor

huh?
how would he get a penalty shot? Luke was no where near him to haul him down, I'm talking about knocking him down as he went past him.

semantics

It's not a penalty shot because Gerbe hadn't played the puck yet. It would just be interference.
- PhillySportsGuy

exactly!!

I get the hate people have for Schenn but there was no way he or any other dman had a shot on that play. he is stationary at the blue line when a bad pass comes back his way between his feet bouncing. Gerbe, who is already a fast player, is skating forward with all his speed while Schenn is stationary facing the play. I'm sorry but that could have been Coburn and the results would have been the same.
- nastyflyergirl

Thank you for being the voice of reason. Of course, that's never Mr. gloom and doom.

It's not a penalty shot because Gerbe hadn't played the puck yet. It would just be interference.
- PhillySportsGuy

A penalty shot can be awarded if the ref thinks the attacking player clearly would have obtained possession and control of the puck. LSchenn would have had to tackle Gerbe before he got to the neutral zone and was behind him. He would have needed to to have the presence of mind to tackle him a split second after the puck went by him.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26308

There are four (4) specific conditions that must be met in order for the Referee to award a penalty shot for a player being fouled from behind. They are:

(i) The infraction must have taken place in the neutral zone or attacking zone, (i.e. over the puck carrier’s own blue line);

(ii) The infraction must have been committed from behind;

(iii) The player in possession and control (or, in the judgment of the Referee, clearly would have obtained possession and control of the puck) must have been denied a reasonable chance to score (the fact that he got a shot off does not automatically eliminate this play from the penalty shot consideration criteria. If the foul was from behind and he was denied a “more” reasonable scoring opportunity due to the foul, then the penalty shot should be awarded);

(iv) The player in possession and control (or, in the judgment of the Referee, clearly would have obtained possession and control of the puck) must have had no opposing player between himself and the goalkeeper.

huh?
how would he get a penalty shot? Luke was no where near him to haul him down, I'm talking about knocking him down as he went past him.
- puckhead17

Incorrect. He was right next to Gerbe just before the red line.

http://www.nhl.com/gamece...en/boxscore?id=2013020749

Incorrect. He was right next to Gerbe just before the red line.

http://www.nhl.com/gamece...en/boxscore?id=2013020749
- Feanor

ok your right whatever dude, it doesn't matter,

the main thing is people are trashing Luke & there was nothing he could do on the play.

in bold, is sounding redundant, but, its all true, it has hurt this team moving forward.

and if we stay in the hunt, there's really no reason to tear it down, but we remain a middle of the pack team.
- puckhead17

I don't think theres much to tear down. I don't want this team to be reactionary and do stupid things. I like our group of forwards. We have 6 forwards I would like to see in orange and black for the long haul. G, Jake, Schenn, Simmer, Couts and Read.

I just think we need to be patient, at this point. The veteran with the most trade value is probably Coburn. I just don't see why we would trade him. He's a good player on a nice cap hit.

I just don't see teams lining up for guys like Hartnell, VL, Downie, Streit, Mez, Grossmann or even L Schenn.

I don't think theres much to tear down. I don't want this team to be reactionary and do stupid things. I like our group of forwards. We have 6 forwards I would like to see in orange and black for the long haul. G, Jake, Schenn, Simmer, Couts and Read.

I just think we need to be patient, at this point. The veteran with the most trade value is probably Coburn. I just don't see why we would trade him. He's a good player on a nice cap hit.

I just don't see teams lining up for guys like Hartnell, VL, Downie, Streit, Mez, Grossmann or even L Schenn.
- PhillySportsGuy

No, I wouldn't tear it down, but it does seem like we wold have tp part with one of Schenn or Couts just to get the blue line right.

I always like Bradon Schenn's upside, but like you said, I don't see Hartnell getting us a good D man moving forward.

edit Coburn has to stay, I would want another like him in trade

A penalty shot can be awarded if the ref thinks the attacking player clearly would have obtained possession and control of the puck. LSchenn would have had to tackle Gerbe before he got to the neutral zone and was behind him. He would have needed to to have the presence of mind to tackle him a split second after the puck went by him.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26308

There are four (4) specific conditions that must be met in order for the Referee to award a penalty shot for a player being fouled from behind. They are:

(i) The infraction must have taken place in the neutral zone or attacking zone, (i.e. over the puck carrier’s own blue line);

(ii) The infraction must have been committed from behind;

(iii) The player in possession and control (or, in the judgment of the Referee, clearly would have obtained possession and control of the puck) must have been denied a reasonable chance to score (the fact that he got a shot off does not automatically eliminate this play from the penalty shot consideration criteria. If the foul was from behind and he was denied a “more” reasonable scoring opportunity due to the foul, then the penalty shot should be awarded);

(iv) The player in possession and control (or, in the judgment of the Referee, clearly would have obtained possession and control of the puck) must have had no opposing player between himself and the goalkeeper.
- Feanor

I would have taken the chance and interfered. It would have given Mason time to come out of the net and play the puck. I don't think Gerbe got to the puck until it crossed the Flyers red line. It would have been hard for the ref to rule a penalty shot in that circumstance.

Schenn also could have stopped the puck with his skate instead of trying to use his stick. Not saying he wasn't unlucky, but let's not say this wasn't his fault at all.

I don't think theres much to tear down. I don't want this team to be reactionary and do stupid things. I like our group of forwards. We have 6 forwards I would like to see in orange and black for the long haul. G, Jake, Schenn, Simmer, Couts and Read.

I just think we need to be patient, at this point. The veteran with the most trade value is probably Coburn. I just don't see why we would trade him. He's a good player on a nice cap hit.

I just don't see teams lining up for guys like Hartnell, VL, Downie, Streit, Mez, Grossmann or even L Schenn.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think a guy like lecav for only 4.5m can get you a decent return. Also grossman could get you a great return. He is being used completely out of his element and does not have good pairings. And hartnell is proven 20 goal scorer and multiple 30 goal scorer. His cap hit is also reasonable for a player like this. He probably brings in the most return for our team other than the players that are considered "untouchable".

No, I wouldn't tear it down, but it does seem like we wold have tp part with one of Schenn or Couts just to get the blue line right.
- puckhead17

Ideally I would like to trade Grossmann for a pick, and sign Girardi and Niskanen.

Coburn-Niskanen
Streit-Girardi
Gus-LSchenn
Alt

No, I wouldn't tear it down, but it does seem like we wold have tp part with one of Schenn or Couts just to get the blue line right.

I always like Bradon Schenn's upside, but like you said, I don't see Hartnell getting us a good D man moving forward.

edit Coburn has to stay, I would want another like him in trade
- puckhead17

Not opposed to trading those guys, but I would want a young defenseman. The price for those guys is at an all time high right now. Team might be better off just being patient. I imagine Homer has asked about every young defenseman. It's been this team's biggest need for a while now.

I think a guy like lecav for only 4.5m can get you a decent return.
- FlyersSteve118

If Vinny was playing for another team, and you saw that he was on the lowest scoring pace since his rookie year, and he literally had a broken back... with that contract, would you want Homer to trade any significant assets for him?

Ideally I would like to trade Grossmann for a pick, and sign Girardi and Niskanen.

Coburn-Niskanen
Streit-Girardi
Gus-LSchenn
Alt
- Feanor

They would need to clear quite a bit of money to do that. Niskanen is also a very risky signing. He will command big money and has been very inconsistent throughout his career.

I think a guy like lecav for only 4.5m can get you a decent return. Also grossman could get you a great return. He is being used completely out of his element and does not have good pairings. And hartnell is proven 20 goal scorer and multiple 30 goal scorer. His cap hit is also reasonable for a player like this. He probably brings in the most return for our team other than the players that are considered "untouchable".
- FlyersSteve118

Because of salary, I don't see Vinny or Hartnell bringing back much. Maybe a 2nd round pick or a mediocre prospect. They would probably just be salary dumps. Grossmann is a third pairing defensive defenseman. Those are the only types of defenseman available in FA.

They would need to clear quite a bit of money to do that. Niskanen is also a very risky signing. He will command big money and has been very inconsistent throughout his career.
- PhillySportsGuy

Just trading Grossmann should be enough. Niskanen is a risk, but not having enough defensemen who can skate and make good passes is a bigger risk.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.000m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Scott Laughton ($0.894m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Matt Niskanen ($4.000m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.750m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,085,595; BONUSES: $212,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $14,405

If Vinny was playing for another team, and you saw that he was on the lowest scoring pace since his rookie year, and he literally had a broken back... with that contract, would you want Homer to trade any significant assets for him?
- Tomahawk

He needs to get healthy to have value here or elsewhere. And since the back was a bone injury, not a soft tissue injury, it is likely he will get healthy with time.

Ideally I would like to trade Grossmann for a pick, and sign Girardi and Niskanen.

Coburn-Niskanen
Streit-Girardi
Gus-LSchenn
Alt
- Feanor

I do agree with you on Girardi, but I don't see him leaving NY, same as Callahan

Just trading Grossmann should be enough. Niskanen is a risk, but not having enough defensemen who can skate and make good passes is a bigger risk.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.000m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Scott Laughton ($0.894m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Matt Niskanen ($4.000m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.750m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,085,595; BONUSES: $212,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $14,405
- Feanor

Nice! I always thought Greiss was a 1A, instead of a 2, I think he gets more $

Just trading Grossmann should be enough. Niskanen is a risk, but not having enough defensemen who can skate and make good passes is a bigger risk.
- Feanor

Good luck getting either Girardi or Niskanen to get out of bed at those AAV's...

Just trading Grossmann should be enough. Niskanen is a risk, but not having enough defensemen who can skate and make good passes is a bigger risk.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.000m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Scott Laughton ($0.894m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Matt Niskanen ($4.000m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.750m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,085,595; BONUSES: $212,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $14,405
- Feanor

I have a feeling girardi and Niskanen are going to get a bit more than that.

Good luck getting either Girardi or Niskanen to get out of bed at those AAV's...
- Tomahawk

I was looking at the numbers and saying "This can't be right. How can he fit them? He must have done something!"

Then I realized what cap hit he put in for both of them.

Those are pretty respectable raises for both players, especially if they are also getting 7 year deals.

ok your right whatever dude, it doesn't matter,

the main thing is people are trashing Luke & there was nothing he could do on the play.
- puckhead17

If he was a dman with any kind of worth, he would build a time machine and go back in time so that he never made a bad play, much like Bobby Orr and Nick Lidstrom did.

Those are pretty respectable raises for both players, especially if they are also getting 7 year deals.
- Feanor

If they hit FA, they will be the top 2 UFA defensemen. They will be getting Carle+ $$.