Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Bad Habits Come to Roost

From earlier today on Bill's last thread.

Ed Snider is so friggin determined to win a cup at all costs that he's lost sight of how their cup teams were built. The 73-76 club wasn't built overnight.

Dornhoefer, Joe Watson, and Ed Van Impe came in the original expansion draft. Jim Watson, Bladon, Taylor, Clarke, Barber, Schultz, Kindrachuk, Saleski and Kelly were all drafted between 1969 and 1972. Lonsberry, Flett, Leach, Dupont, Parent, Crisp and Harris came in trades over 3 or 4 years and Ashbee and Nolet were added as free agents.

Instead of trying to restructure the team overnight, the Flyers decided back in 1969 after being swept and pummeled by the Blues that they were going to build a big, tough, team built around Bobby Clarke and a strong work ethic. 5 years later they won the Stanley Cup.

Sadly, Ed Snider seems to have forgotten all this and apparently no one else in the organization has the stones to tell the emporer that he's wearing no clothes.
They can go from coach to coach, they can even replace Holmgren with Hextall, but as long as Snider sits at the top its very doubtful that a long careful building of a championship caliber team is ever going to happen.

From earlier today on Bill's last thread.

Ed Snider is so friggin determined to win a cup at all costs that he's lost sight of how their cup teams were built. The 73-76 club wasn't built overnight.

Dornhoefer, Joe Watson, and Ed Van Impe came in the original expansion draft. Jim Watson, Bladon, Taylor, Clarke, Barber, Schultz, Kindrachuk, Saleski and Kelly were all drafted between 1969 and 1972. Lonsberry, Flett, Leach, Dupont, Parent, Crisp and Harris came in trades over 3 or 4 years and Ashbee and Nolet were added as free agents.

Instead of trying to restructure the team overnight, the Flyers decided back in 1969 after being swept and pummeled by the Blues that they were going to build a big, tough, team built around Bobby Clarke and a strong work ethic. 5 years later they won the Stanley Cup.

Sadly, Ed Snider seems to have forgotten all this and apparently no one else in the organization has the stones to tell the emporer that he's wearing no clothes.
They can go from coach to coach, they can even replace Holmgren with Hextall, but as long as Snider sits at the top its very doubtful that a long careful building of a championship caliber team is ever going to happen.



- BiggE

Snider will always covet 1974 and 75 and as long as the money comes in things will stay the same

This team is such a mess.

Easy to play against, terrible, immobile D-men, and mediocre offense too lazy to try on most nights.

ugh

Their defense is their biggest problem. I say that if they're out of it by the trade deadline, then they should get whatever they can for their entire defense. I'm dead serious. Blow it up and rebuild it. Timonen and Meszaros are almost certainly gone. Coburn, Grossman and L Schenn should be moved for draft picks, or whatever they can get as well. They're all awful and not improving. They're probably not going to get rid of their entire defense, but I'd like to see as much of a reshape as possible, (on defense). It can't get any worse. Let Gustafsson, Manning, Bourdon and Lauridsen get a look and see which ones of them can play, if any. Then rebuild it in the offseason through free agency and the draft. That's just my personal opinion on what I'd like to see them do with their defense.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Bad Habits Come to Roost
- bmeltzer

It's a bad mix of players and quite honestly, when the coach doesn't follow through when he talks about discipline and accountability, things like this will happen.

You can't bench Jay Rosehill and expect Claude Giroux to backcheck better. You can't bench Erik Gustafsson and expect Luke Schenn to get the message. You can't bench Steve Downie and expect Scott Hartnell to play more disciplined.

Once in awhile, you need to whack a sacred cow to send a message

This team is such a mess.

Easy to play against, terrible, immobile D-men, and mediocre offense too lazy to try on most nights.
- Hatchet

I don't think the Flyers have a single "terrible" defenseman on an individual level -- they are all bonafide NHL Dmen . What I worry about it is the mix of players. They have too many 4th to 6th Dmen and not top 3s.

I've reached the point in this season where I record the game and start watching two hours after the start time. That way I can skip ahead if they start unraveling. I got thru the last half of yesterday's game in about 10 minutes and it was much less annoying.

As soon as Vinny scored that nice PPG you just knew the Blue Jackets would mount a push that the Flyers would be unable to cope with.

I don't think the Flyers have a single "terrible" defenseman on an individual level -- they are all bonafide NHL Dmen . What I worry about it is the mix of players. They have too many 4th to 6th Dmen and not top 3s.
- bmeltzer

They just need more two-way defenseman. Im not even talking about that grade A, number 1 guy. I'm talking about the Matt Carles. Guys who aren't great in any particular area, but can contribute all over the ice.

Bill, do you think Scott Laughton will play for the Phantoms, or the Flyers, or neither in March?

I don't think the Flyers have a single "terrible" defenseman on an individual level -- they are all bonafide NHL Dmen . What I worry about it is the mix of players. They have too many 4th to 6th Dmen and not top 3s.
- bmeltzer

and the Flyers Dmen are getting top dollar

I've reached the point in this season where I record the game and start watching two hours after the start time. That way I can skip ahead if they start unraveling. I got thru the last half of yesterday's game in about 10 minutes and it was much less annoying.

As soon as Vinny scored that nice PPG you just knew the Blue Jackets would mount a push that the Flyers would be unable to cope with.
- Feanor

They just got steamrolled by the Jackets. It was the difference between a team with a ton of confidence and a team with no confidence.

You could just see the Blue Jackets moving the puck so quickly up the ice. Flyers didn't stand a chance in that third period. I don't even remember them generating a scoring chance.

It's a bad mix of players and quite honestly, when the coach doesn't follow through when he talks about discipline and accountability, things like this will happen.

You can't bench Jay Rosehill and expect Claude Giroux to backcheck better. You can't bench Erik Gustafsson and expect Luke Schenn to get the message. You can't bench Steve Downie and expect Scott Hartnell to play more disciplined.

Once in awhile, you need to whack a sacred cow to send a message
- Jsaquella

just checked the standings and the implications of that game last night make the lack of effort even more disturbing. to have a chance to stop a team from overtaking you in the standings, come back from a bad start to take the lead and then just collapse again is frightening

Gets out the red edit pen:

Following last night's 5-2 loss in Columbus and Wednesday's deceptively close 3-2 losing score against Columbus,

I can't blame the goalies at all. Goalies, like d-men and forwards, are going to go through performance peaks and valleys, and that's when the rest of the team needs to pick up their play to cover for less than optimal performance.

Penalties are, imo, the biggest and most consistent problem with this team. Fix that, then move on to the other problems listed by Bill.

They just got steamrolled by the Jackets. It was the difference between a team with a ton of confidence and a team with no confidence.

You could just see the Blue Jackets moving the puck so quickly up the ice. Flyers didn't stand a chance in that third period. I don't even remember them generating a scoring chance.
- PhillySportsGuy

there was a camera shot from behind bob with about 10 min left in the game and the ice was still shining in that end due to a total lack of presence in the offensive zone

just checked the standings and the implications of that game last night make the lack of effort even more disturbing. to have a chance to stop a team from overtaking you in the standings, come back from a bad start to take the lead and then just collapse again is frightening
- hogweed

That's the difference between a confident team on an 8 game winning streak like Columbus and a team that has none, like the Flyers.

The Flyers had been winning by playing by crap and using their talent to stage ferocious comebacks. They couldn't sustain it, and have come down to Earth.

I don't think the Flyers have a single "terrible" defenseman on an individual level -- they are all bonafide NHL Dmen . What I worry about it is the mix of players. They have too many 4th to 6th Dmen and not top 3s.
- bmeltzer

I have been saying this for a while. They really need to make some moves. Sitting pat with what we have isnt going to work. I think we need to move a center like Lecavalier for a young puck mover like Gardiner. Then we need to sign either Girardi or Markov. We also need to get a top scoring forward, and to me, that means Gaborik. Fill in the 4th line with Powe and Laughton. Sign Clemmenson as back-up.

Voracek-Giroux-Gaborik
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Raffl
Powe-Laughton-Rinaldo

Girardi-Gardiner
Grossmann-Coburn
Streit-Schenn

Mason
Clemmenson

there was a camera shot from behind bob with about 10 min left in the game and the ice was still shining in that end due to a total lack of presence in the offensive zone
- hogweed

It seemed like the puck exited the Columbus zone as fast as it entered. They were really cooking on all cylinders last night. Flyers were totally unprepared for what was coming.

Gets out the red edit pen:

I can't blame the goalies at all. Goalies, like d-men and forwards, are going to go through performance peaks and valleys, and that's when the rest of the team needs to pick up their play to cover for less than optimal performance.

Penalties are, imo, the biggest and most consistent problem with this team. Fix that, then move on to the other problems listed by Bill.
- wolfhounds

The penalties are an easy example of the overall undisciplined play. Team defense and two way play by forwards requires discipline and hard work. It's the lack of discipline that leads to poor play and penalties. They need to be held accountable and Berube talsk the talk, but he hasn't walked the walk, if you get my drift

I have been saying this for a while. They really need to make some moves. Sitting pat with what we have isnt going to work. I think we need to move a center like Lecavalier for a young puck mover like Gardiner. Then we need to sign either Girardi or Markov. We also need to get a top scoring forward, and to me, that means Gaborik. Fill in the 4th line with Powe and Laughton. Sign Clemmenson as back-up.

Voracek-Giroux-Gaborik
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Raffl
Powe-Laughton-Rinaldo

Girardi-Gardiner
Grossmann-Coburn
Streit-Schenn

Mason
Clemmenson
- youarewrong

Why would Toronto trade a very talented young defenseman for a 33 year old with declining stats coming off a broken back who is signed for 4 more years at a sizeable cap hit? They could probably trade Gardiner for a young guy who better fits and has a more manageable cap hit.

I have been saying this for a while. They really need to make some moves. Sitting pat with what we have isnt going to work. I think we need to move a center like Lecavalier for a young puck mover like Gardiner. Then we need to sign either Girardi or Markov. We also need to get a top scoring forward, and to me, that means Gaborik. Fill in the 4th line with Powe and Laughton. Sign Clemmenson as back-up.

Voracek-Giroux-Gaborik
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Raffl
Powe-Laughton-Rinaldo

Girardi-Gardiner
Grossmann-Coburn
Streit-Schenn

Mason
Clemmenson
- youarewrong

Not affordable, not realistic and not all that helpful.

Time to trade all of the vets and tell the keepers that it's time to throw every game on purpose. In fact, let's just dress like 6 AHL throw-aways as our NHL roster so none of our younger good players get hurt.

Look, yeah, last night sucked, and this team has flaws. But my God, some of you people would have me believe that this team is as bad as the Quakers.

Why would Toronto trade a very talented young defenseman for a 33 year old with declining stats coming off a broken back who is signed for 4 more years at a sizeable cap hit? They could probably trade Gardiner for a young guy who better fits and has a more manageable cap hit.
- Jsaquella

I know. If the Flyers asked for Gardiner, the Leafs would ask for Couturier and may settle for B. Schenn. Unless Vinny turns things around, no one is going to want him unless the Flyers eat some salary or sweeten the deal with a pick or prospect.

Time to trade all of the vets and tell the keepers that it's time to throw every game on purpose. In fact, let's just dress like 6 AHL throw-aways as our NHL roster so none of our younger good players get hurt.

Look, yeah, last night sucked, and this team has flaws. But my God, some of you people would have me believe that this team is as bad as the Quakers.
- jmatchett383

Are you trying to win games or lose them?