I thought Vinny and Schenn were a good combo early this season before he hurt his back. I still think Schenn can be become the LW we need, and fill in at center when required. Like Sharp has done.
- Feanor

Agreed -- it could still work; I think we're going to find out a lot about this team and its future over the next 30 games.

Agreed -- it could still work; I think we're going to find out a lot about this team and its future over the next 30 games.
- AllInForFlyers

I expect much of the same. Inconsistency until the end.

I expect much of the same. Inconsistency until the end.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't know what they can do, but I don't want to be the sixers, make it into the 8th spot, go home early, draw a middle round pick, do it again, & again.

I don't know what they can do, but I don't want to be the sixers, make it into the 8th spot, go home early, draw a middle round pick, do it again, & again.
- puckhead17

Its different than the NBA. You can get very good players in the middle of the draft. You can also win a title as an 8th seed. Its not like the NBA where we already know the Pacers and Heat will play in the Eastern Conference Championship.

I expect much of the same. Inconsistency until the end.
- PhillySportsGuy

Understood; what I meant more is that, over the next 30 games, it'd be nice to know if Vinny and Schenn can play together and be productive, if Michael Raffl holds up and produces all the way to the end, if we have anybody who can play with Read and Couturier -- because as much as I respect Steve Downie, he hasn't been the same since the Emelin elbow.

And maybe it's wishful thinking, though Panaccio's saying that Gus is back in tomorrow: It'd be nice if he played 30 straight so we know, once and for all, if he can get it done and stay healthy while doing it.

Stuff like that. Again, I get it : Don't spend assets on any more aging players. But this team still has young players who need to prove that they can do it for 82 games -- hell, over the next 30, it'd be nice to see Couturier get 17 points, finish with 40 on the season.

Again, stuff like that, whether they make they playoffs or not.

Understood; what I meant more is that, over the next 30 games, it'd be nice to know if Vinny and Schenn can play together and be productive, if Michael Raffl holds up and produces all the way to the end, if we have anybody who can play with Read and Couturier -- because as much as I respect Steve Downie, he hasn't been the same since the Emelin elbow.

And maybe it's wishful thinking, though Panaccio's saying that Gus is back in tomorrow: It'd be nice if he played 30 straight so we know, once and for all, if he can get it done and stay healthy while doing it.

Stuff like that. Again, I get it : Don't spend assets on any more aging players. But this team still has young players who need to prove that they can do it for 82 games -- hell, over the next 30, it'd be nice to see Couturier get 17 points, finish with 40 on the season.

Again, stuff like that, whether they make they playoffs or not.
- AllInForFlyers

Downie hasn't been the same because he's been on the 4th line. Put him back with Couts and Read and he'll play like he did before. Vinny doesn't have a spot right now, but they can't put him on the 4th line.

I would be ok with playing Gus. I just don't see how he would make this team better. They already sat Luke Schenn and his confidence is gone. Sitting Grossmann will leave the team even more vulnerable in their own end. It's tough to sit Mez after such a good scoring stretch.

Its different than the NBA. You can get very good players in the middle of the draft. You can also win a title as an 8th seed. Its not like the NBA where we already know the Pacers and Heat will play in the Eastern Conference Championship.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's just an example

They need to try something.

Downie hasn't been the same because he's been on the 4th line. Put him back with Couts and Read and he'll play like he did before. Vinny doesn't have a spot right now, but they can't put him on the 4th line.

I would be ok with playing Gus. I just don't see how he would make this team better. They already sat Luke Schenn and his confidence is gone. Sitting Grossmann will leave the team even more vulnerable in their own end. It's tough to sit Mez after such a good scoring stretch.
- PhillySportsGuy

Try Luke at wing on the 4th line.

It's just an example

They need to try something.
- puckhead17

I know, but in the NBA you need to bottom out before getting better. NHL teams can get better while still staying competitive and not mortgaging the future.

Try Luke at wing on the 4th line.
- puckhead17

A line of Rosehill-Hall-L. Schenn would be the slowest line in the NHL since before the 04-05 lockout.

I know, but in the NBA you need to bottom out before getting better. NHL teams can get better while still staying competitive and not mortgaging the future.
- PhillySportsGuy

Mike green may be available in Washington

And

Phoenix is looking fora forward

Downie hasn't been the same because he's been on the 4th line. Put him back with Couts and Read and he'll play like he did before. Vinny doesn't have a spot right now, but they can't put him on the 4th line.

I would be ok with playing Gus. I just don't see how he would make this team better. They already sat Luke Schenn and his confidence is gone. Sitting Grossmann will leave the team even more vulnerable in their own end. It's tough to sit Mez after such a good scoring stretch.
- PhillySportsGuy

With Luke Schenn, he needs to get over this confidence excuse. He's not a fast player. Fine. But at least show improvement in your reads, show some growth in other parts of your game. First-touch pass accuracy. Zone clearance. All the stuff you have to do well as a defensive defenseman with barely average speed.

I don't mind JVR for Schenn if Schenn just plays a solid, no-frills 18 minutes a night. It doesn't have to be rocket science. Just be rock solid in your end, make the reads, so we're not terrified every time we see "22" on the jersey.

I'd risk sitting Grossmann, though -- you just got strafed for 5, and you've been getting strafed for three weeks, off and on.

At some point, you can't keep playing the same guys, having those results, then saying, "Well, we can't sit THAT guy." Having too many untouchables is just as bad as not having enough.

A line of Rosehill-Hall-L. Schenn would be the slowest line in the NHL since before the 04-05 lockout.
- PhillySportsGuy

But what to do??

They are not going to throw Luke in a dumpster, not yet anyway

With Luke Schenn, he needs to get over this confidence excuse. He's not a fast player. Fine. But at least show improvement in your reads, show some growth in other parts of your game. First-touch pass accuracy. Zone clearance. All the stuff you have to do well as a defensive defenseman with barely average speed.

I don't mind JVR for Schenn if Schenn just plays a solid, no-frills 18 minutes a night. It doesn't have to be rocket science. Just be rock solid in your end, make the reads, so we're not terrified every time we see "22" on the jersey.

I'd risk sitting Grossmann, though -- you just got strafed for 5, and you've been getting strafed for three weeks, off and on.

At some point, you can't keep playing the same guys, having those results, then saying, "Well, we can't sit THAT guy." Having too many untouchables is just as bad as not having enough.
- AllInForFlyers

Honestly, I don't think Luke's passes out of the zone, puck movement have been that bad, his defensive zone reads and coverage are more of an issue.

Honestly, I don't think Luke's passes out of the zone, puck movement have been that bad, his defensive zone reads and coverage are more of an issue.
- puckhead17

And again, I'm absolutely not saying that any one player has to be singled out.

I'm just saying that for Luke Schenn, for people to have confidence in him, he needs to be a guy that people don't worry about -- he's not taking over a game like Shea Weber did the other night, offensively.

But I don't think it's a crime to be a rock-solid No. 5 defenseman in the NHL, and to be that, Schenn needs to be more dependable in his reads and coverage, at the very least.

And again, I'm absolutely not saying that any one player has to be singled out.

I'm just saying that for Luke Schenn, for people to have confidence in him, he needs to be a guy that people don't worry about -- he's not taking over a game like Shea Weber did the other night, offensively.

But I don't think it's a crime to be a rock-solid No. 5 defenseman in the NHL, and to be that, Schenn needs to be more dependable in his reads and coverage, at the very least.
- AllInForFlyers

I agree, if he could/would just simplify his game, it's the dumb mistakes that are making this trade look so stupid, not so much that he's not as good a player at his position.

Edit, I just can't see the luxury of holding on to 3 young centers when our D is so slow, something has to give

Mike green may be available in Washington

And

Phoenix is looking fora forward
- puckhead17

I wonder if they would make Rundblad available at a decent price? And would Downie(pending some sort of extension) get it done?

I agree, if he could/would just simplify his game, it's the dumb mistakes that are making this trade look so stupid, not so much that he's not as good a player at his position.

Edit, I just can't see the luxury of holding on to 3 young centers when our D is so slow, something has to give
- puckhead17

there's major luxury of having that issue look at the sharks they have marleau and thornton they've been able to focus around them for years and draft/sign players they need

Lecavalier was doing well, until he got his face busted.

Here's my wacky GM suggestion-rumor mongers say Detroit is shopping Bertuzzi. They were interested in Lecavalier this summer, perhaps they agreed to Vinny & Gustafsson for Bertuzzi, Eaves & Quincey.

Eaves was waived, and Quincey has struggled. You're not gonna get a kid like Gardiner for Vinny, but maybe just moving the deal is enough
- Jsaquella

I'd do that, at the very least they get out of Vinny's contract

I'd do that, at the very least they get out of Vinny's contract
- BiggE

I think Detroit had their chance to outbid us for Vinny and obviously they didnt. I'm not so sure they'll have much interest. Toronto and Phoenix are two teams that I could see having big interest in Vinny. I'm not so sure he would share the interest though.

Agreed -- it could still work; I think we're going to find out a lot about this team and its future over the next 30 games.
- AllInForFlyers

The next stretch of games leading into the Olympic break could easily finish this team off. If they play the way they have over the last 2 weeks, I could easily see them going 1-5-2 or so and that would leave them at 26-26-8 and most likely in 7th place in the division. At that point, they need to move whichever vets they can for whatever they can get for them.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but in looking at this team, with their current D group, I just don't see them being able to sustain success for any real length of time. It truly sux.

That is true, but look at how quickly Columbus turned from a bottom dwelling team, to a decent team. It just took a few tweaks. All the Flyers need are a few tweaks. Make the defense a bit more moble with passing skills... Get a top line sniper to play with your all-star playmaker, and get a 4th line that can play either strong defense, or physically pounding (not goons more like Otts).

I can see 1-2 trades taking care of this... Whether its Gardiner, Buff, or someone else... or getting Markov in the off-season... some of it can be handled in UFA.

We will likely have about 14 million in cap space... use it.
- youarewrong

I don't disagree about a few trades making a difference to the team, if they are the right trades. I just don't know what those are. Luckily I'm not the GM.

Columbus has had quite a few top 5 draft years to help them get competitive, plus they acquired a pretty good goalie from an impatient team that won't be mentioned by name.

The next stretch of games leading into the Olympic break could easily finish this team off. If they play the way they have over the last 2 weeks, I could easily see them going 1-5-2 or so and that would leave them at 26-26-8 and most likely in 7th place in the division. At that point, they need to move whichever vets they can for whatever they can get for them.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but in looking at this team, with their current D group, I just don't see them being able to sustain success for any real length of time. It truly sux.

- BiggE

No, I was totally thinking much the same thing looking at the game schedule I have on my desk just the other day. It's a brutal stretch of matchups heading into the olympics. It could get ugly like the beginning of the season again, and quick.

If memory serves correctly didnt they make the move for Grossmann right before the carnival? Maybe they'll do something soon. Hopefully.

You have to understand that moving Vinny isn't going to bring back anything. You will need to package something with him like the Gagne deal. Just be sure you don't take Matt Walker back.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's why I focused on guys that Detroit has waived, is supposedly shopping or unhappy with.

I think Detroit had their chance to outbid us for Vinny and obviously they didnt. I'm not so sure they'll have much interest. Toronto and Phoenix are two teams that I could see having big interest in Vinny. I'm not so sure he would share the interest though.
- hereticpride

I'm pretty sure he publicly stated that he wanted to stay in the East, so Phoenix ain't gonna happen. Toronto would be logical spot, but they are right up against the cap, so I'm not sure what we could expect back.

Here's a thought. Since Downie is in the last year of his deal, offer Toronto, who needs a scoring center in the worst way, VL and Downie (the Flyers eat half of Downies contract and cap hit) for Lupul.

The Flyers could use another decent winger and it would give them:

Raffl-G-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Lupul

that's a top 9 I could certainly live with.