They're going to need to replace Timonen & Meszaros anyhow. They could sign one and trade for another, might need to wait for summer.

They have to avoid the short term, knee jerk fix. I'd prefer a young guy, but I'd be willing to consider a guy like Byfuglien, who is still under 30 and signed for a couple years.

Yes, cost is an issue, and it will be a determining factor.
- Jsaquella

I agree, won't be easy

It's a bitter pill to swallow, having my eyes opened, truly opened, to what this defense truly is. I thought they might be able to pull off some kind of minor miracle, pop this team into contention this year or, at worst, next year.

I honestly had hope they could. Believed they could.

They can't. Not with this defense or the options available to them. There's no free agents out there who are going to help. Kimmo Timonen's retirement is going to leave a gaping hole in an already suspect defense, with the potential to make Coburn regress to where he was last year. You only open up gaping holes in the forward corps if you address it that way, because none of the Adirondack forwards appear to be impact forwards, at least right now.

There isn't a single defenseman in Adirondack who it is reasonable to expect to make a difference next year. It would be nice, amazing, if Alt or Ghost or someone made that jump with confidence, grace and production.

But more likely than not, they're going to look like the rookies they are, if they even make the team.

It is going to take years to fix this poop.
- AllInForFlyers

Things are never as good as they seem when the team is winning and never as bad as they seem when they are losing.

The team has a bad week, and there's a line jumping off the bridge. Win three in a row and people are staking out spots on Broad street.

They can fix it, so long as they are smart. They have to ignore the knee jerk crap and get a plan, and stick to it.

Things are never as good as they seem when the team is winning and never as bad as they seem when they are losing.

The team has a bad week, and there's a line jumping off the bridge. Win three in a row and people are staking out spots on Broad street.

They can fix it, so long as they are smart. They have to ignore the knee jerk crap and get a plan, and stick to it.
- Jsaquella

Thought the plan based on the last 2 drafts was to draft & develop........maybe I am wrong.

Thought the plan based on the last 2 drafts was to draft & develop........maybe I am wrong.
- ob18

Yeah, just like the plan three years ago was to build around Richards and Carter.

Drafting and developing doesn't have to mean "Sucking for the next three years and not making trades"

Yeah, just like the plan three years ago was to build around Richards and Carter.

Drafting and developing doesn't have to mean "Sucking for the next three years and not making trades"
- Jsaquella

so you never answered my question....who are you going to trade from our great prospect pool in order to get buf? maybe our 2 top 100 scorers in the AHL? or you can trade roster forwards, because well you know we can call up from our great talent on the farm to replace them...

(frank) Buf....try to trim the fat off this team and stay the course draft and develop.

Yeah, just like the plan three years ago was to build around Richards and Carter.

Drafting and developing doesn't have to mean "Sucking for the next three years and not making trades"
- Jsaquella

I know it doesn't..........But like you said they have to be smart, the entire league knows what they need & won't make it cheap for them to get it.

The light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train
- Jsaquella

Things are never as good as they seem when the team is winning and never as bad as they seem when they are losing.

The team has a bad week, and there's a line jumping off the bridge. Win three in a row and people are staking out spots on Broad street.

They can fix it, so long as they are smart. They have to ignore the knee jerk crap and get a plan, and stick to it.
- Jsaquella

The ups and downs of an 82-game season -- those, I can deal with. I get fired up about the team, but sometimes, the truth is what it is.

I don't mind risk, taking on a guy like Byfuglien. But someone like that is going to be costly in assets -- if he's even available. Winnipeg's winning again, and while they likely won't make the playoffs, they'll talk themselves into believing it was the coach.

Brian Campbell, Christian Erhoff, guys like that -- they would help. But, again, those guys aren't coming without assets going the other way, with the better the player, the better the assets -- and more likely, quantity of assets, too.

And do we really have any assets to spare, other than Scott Laughton? Do we honestly have draft picks to burn? When before you know it, Scott Hartnell's decline will be real and we'll need a 3RW as soon as next season who, if Adirondack is any indication, isn't in the organization?

Just finding someone to take Timonen's minutes alone is daunting enough, and yes, we're going to have six guys playing defense next year -- and just finding someone faster could help -- but again, we're just not flush with the assets to make it readily obvious as to how that will be accomplished.

Are they as bad as they were today? No. That was four games in six nights, and Boston played well.

But teams like Columbus and the Islanders...they're getting better. They have just as much talent on their NHL roster as we do, and they have more assets at their disposal, with regard to prospects. That's just in our division.

The Rags are holding steady, the Pens aren't going anywhere. Carolina's figuring some things out, though they appear to have money concerns, as usual.

But when you look around the league...no, it doesn't have to be a big-name defenseman who is brought in. But since none of this stuff happens in a vacuum -- just as we're trying to get better, others will, as well.

This is going to be difficult. It really is.

so you never answered my question....who are you going to trade from our great prospect pool in order to get buf? maybe our 2 top 100 scorers in the AHL? or you can trade roster forwards, because well you know we can call up from our great talent on the farm to replace them...

(frank) Buf....try to trim the fat off this team and stay the course draft and develop.
- PhillaBully

I'm not sure what it'd take, but I'd consider trading guys from the top 9 to get him.

It's far easier to replace a top 9 forward in free agency than it is to find what Byfuglien brings as a defenseman.

I know it doesn't..........But like you said they have to be smart, the entire league knows what they need & won't make it cheap for them to get it.
- ob18

And none of the other 29 teams have needs that can be exploited?

And none of the other 29 teams have needs that can be exploited?
- Jsaquella

Sure they do but do you trust Homer to be the one to pull that off ?

The ups and downs of an 82-game season -- those, I can deal with. I get fired up about the team, but sometimes, the truth is what it is.

I don't mind risk, taking on a guy like Byfuglien. But someone like that is going to be costly in assets -- if he's even available. Winnipeg's winning again, and while they likely won't make the playoffs, they'll talk themselves into believing it was the coach.

Brian Campbell, Christian Erhoff, guys like that -- they would help. But, again, those guys aren't coming without assets going the other way, with the better the player, the better the assets -- and more likely, quantity of assets, too.

And do we really have any assets to spare, other than Scott Laughton? Do we honestly have draft picks to burn? When before you know it, Scott Hartnell's decline will be real and we'll need a 3RW as soon as next season who, if Adirondack is any indication, isn't in the organization?

Just finding someone to take Timonen's minutes alone is daunting enough, and yes, we're going to have six guys playing defense next year -- and just finding someone faster could help -- but again, we're just not flush with the assets to make it readily obvious as to how that will be accomplished.

Are they as bad as they were today? No. That was four games in six nights, and Boston played well.

But teams like Columbus and the Islanders...they're getting better. They have just as much talent on their NHL roster as we do, and they have more assets at their disposal, with regard to prospects. That's just in our division.

The Rags are holding steady, the Pens aren't going anywhere. Carolina's figuring some things out, though they appear to have money concerns, as usual.

But when you look around the league...no, it doesn't have to be a big-name defenseman who is brought in. But since none of this stuff happens in a vacuum -- just as we're trying to get better, others will, as well.

This is going to be difficult. It really is.
- AllInForFlyers

It will be much easier to hit the reset button and get back on track then it will be keeping this defense on life support. for me i can live with either winning or loosing, but what i cant stand is being mediocre. To be honest the sabres have more to be excited about in the future than the flyers do.

The ups and downs of an 82-game season -- those, I can deal with. I get fired up about the team, but sometimes, the truth is what it is.

I don't mind risk, taking on a guy like Byfuglien. But someone like that is going to be costly in assets -- if he's even available. Winnipeg's winning again, and while they likely won't make the playoffs, they'll talk themselves into believing it was the coach.

Brian Campbell, Christian Erhoff, guys like that -- they would help. But, again, those guys aren't coming without assets going the other way, with the better the player, the better the assets -- and more likely, quantity of assets, too.

And do we really have any assets to spare, other than Scott Laughton? Do we honestly have draft picks to burn? When before you know it, Scott Hartnell's decline will be real and we'll need a 3RW as soon as next season who, if Adirondack is any indication, isn't in the organization?

Just finding someone to take Timonen's minutes alone is daunting enough, and yes, we're going to have six guys playing defense next year -- and just finding someone faster could help -- but again, we're just not flush with the assets to make it readily obvious as to how that will be accomplished.

Are they as bad as they were today? No. That was four games in six nights, and Boston played well.

But teams like Columbus and the Islanders...they're getting better. They have just as much talent on their NHL roster as we do, and they have more assets at their disposal, with regard to prospects. That's just in our division.

The Rags are holding steady, the Pens aren't going anywhere. Carolina's figuring some things out, though they appear to have money concerns, as usual.

But when you look around the league...no, it doesn't have to be a big-name defenseman who is brought in. But since none of this stuff happens in a vacuum -- just as we're trying to get better, others will, as well.

This is going to be difficult. It really is.
- AllInForFlyers

Honestly, they could add guys like Anton Stralman & Ron Hainsey and just play better team defense and be a solid NHL team.

Fixing the way they play still has to happen, regardless of who they add. They have to instill discipline, whether it's from the coach or the GM and hold guys who don't work hard or develop discipline feet to the fire.

That's the culture change that needs to take place. Accountability.

I'm not sure what it'd take, but I'd consider trading guys from the top 9 to get him.

It's far easier to replace a top 9 forward in free agency than it is to find what Byfuglien brings as a defenseman.
- Jsaquella

yes and you know that they will over pay in years. money, and NMC to accomplish this...

Honestly, they could add guys like Anton Stralman & Ron Hainsey and just play better team defense and be a solid NHL team.

Fixing the way they play still has to happen, regardless of who they add. They have to instill discipline, whether it's from the coach or the GM and hold guys who don't work hard or develop discipline feet to the fire.

That's the culture change that needs to take place. Accountability.
- Jsaquella

how do you hold ones feet to the fire when they control their own destiny...its not like you can threaten anyone one on this team with a trade. Im not trying to be a Richard right now, but threatening a player with a NMC is futile.

yes and you know that they will over pay in years. money, and NMC to accomplish this...
- PhillaBully

Sorry, I'll go back to gloom and doom and praying that Morin turns out to be more than Braydon Coburn with a mean streak.

I'm all for staying the course and drafting and developing. But I'm also very much against tanking and not making moves because one trade won't solve all the problems.

I mean we complain so much about the team playing poor defense, then when somebody suggests moving one of the forwards who don't backcheck people get upset, like someone suggested trading Billy Penn & the Liberty Bell for a plastic statue of Paul Bunyan

how do you hold ones feet to the fire when they control their own destiny...its not like you can threaten anyone one on this team with a trade. Im not trying to be a Richard right now, but threatening a player with a NMC is futile.
- PhillaBully

You sit them the (frank) out.

Scott Hartnell takes 3 bad penalties on Thursday, you sit his ass out on Saturday, rather than bump him up to the top line.

You sit them the (frank) out.

Scott Hartnell takes 3 bad penalties on Thursday, you sit his ass out on Saturday, rather than bump him up to the top line.
- Jsaquella

you going to sit him out for the next 4 /5 years?

Sorry, I'll go back to gloom and doom and praying that Morin turns out to be more than Braydon Coburn with a mean streak.

I'm all for staying the course and drafting and developing. But I'm also very much against tanking and not making moves because one trade won't solve all the problems.

I mean we complain so much about the team playing poor defense, then when somebody suggests moving one of the forwards who don't backcheck people get upset, like someone suggested trading Billy Penn & the Liberty Bell for a plastic statue of Paul Bunyan
- Jsaquella

who said anything about tanking? All im saying is too trim the fat off this team and pray to god that some other team has a use for them. Start with a clean slate.

Honestly, they could add guys like Anton Stralman & Ron Hainsey and just play better team defense and be a solid NHL team.

Fixing the way they play still has to happen, regardless of who they add. They have to instill discipline, whether it's from the coach or the GM and hold guys who don't work hard or develop discipline feet to the fire.

That's the culture change that needs to take place. Accountability.
- Jsaquella

I agree: The discipline of this team is atrocious. It's ridiculous. Those two penalties in the first today -- a good team might take one, but it wouldn't take both, within minutes of each other.

And yes, they can, and should, play better team defense. It's not all on the defense.

But this is still going to be a heavy lift, simply because of the amount of holes that have to be filled where guys will have to play well -- Timonen's loss could be jarring, and then you still have to actually land the upgrades.

I don't hold Holmgren responsible for every swing and miss -- if getting defensemen were easy, everybody would have them. But what if we wind up with a Gervais/Foster summer?

That's what I mean -- not only do you have to get guys, the guys you're looking at will likely have some question marks attached that won't have easy answers.

you going to sit him out for the next 4 /5 years?
- PhillaBully

Generally, if you bury a guy, he becomes more willing to waive his NTC...and it usually doesn't take 4-5 years.

These guys want to be playing. Regardless of the NTC

Sorry, I'll go back to gloom and doom and praying that Morin turns out to be more than Braydon Coburn with a mean streak.

- Jsaquella

thats higher than i project him to be

Generally, if you bury a guy, he becomes more willing to waive his NTC...and it usually doesn't take 4-5 years.

These guys want to be playing. Regardless of the NTC
- Jsaquella

Yes and you diminish their trade values...at that point you arent going to get much for a thats watching from the stands.

thats higher than i project him to be
- watsonnostaw

see if they went for Maata and Risto they wouldnt be having these problems....personally some of their scouts have to go.

who said anything about tanking? All im saying is too trim the fat off this team and pray to god that some other team has a use for them. Start with a clean slate.
- PhillaBully

Without trying to land upgrades on defense, they will not be a serious contender. I'm not happy about wasting prime years in the careers of Giroux, Simmonds and Voracek with spare parts on D.

What they will do might differ from my approach. I get that. So you can throw the "too many years, NMC's, Etc" at me, because you asked what I would do. I'd pursue guys like Erhoff or Byfuglien. If the cost is too high, I walk away. I'm not saying to trade for one of them at all costs.

I'm saying be open to possibilities, and do what you can to win. Follow the Keith Allen process-ask "Does this bring us closer to a Stanley Cup"