Yes and you diminish their trade values...at that point you arent going to get much for a thats watching from the stands.
- PhillaBully

If they are fat that needs to be trimmed, who cares about their trade value? If you have a guy that you absolutely need to get rid of because he won't accept his role, it's addition by subtraction

If they are fat that needs to be trimmed, who cares about their trade value? If you have a guy that you absolutely need to get rid of because he won't accept his role, it's addition by subtraction
- Jsaquella

you know thats not how the game is played. Assets are assets even if undesirable.

It will be much easier to hit the reset button and get back on track then it will be keeping this defense on life support. for me i can live with either winning or loosing, but what i cant stand is being mediocre. To be honest the sabres have more to be excited about in the future than the flyers do.
- PhillaBully

Right now, I'm not even sure how you reset the defense to make it better, with Schenn and Grossmann playing like they are and Timmo and Meszaros UFA.

I mean, seriously: As much as I want to see four different guys doing great things, that won't happen. Realistically, you can only replace so many guys. Some of these improvements have to come from within.

Luke Schenn and Grossmann...they can't play like this. They simply cannot play like this, at their ages and experience levels. It's one thing to be slow, but what we're seeing right now is something else entirely.

you know thats not how the game is played. Assets are assets even if undesirable.
- PhillaBully

Sure it is. When a guy becomes a cancer, he gets dumped for less than value. Look at Dany Heatley. You want to trim fat? You have to dump it for less than full value. You don't often get full value for a guy you are ecstatic to get rid of. Not a lot of Scott Gomez deals out there.

Hell, look at the Del Zotto for Klein deal. a young defenseman capable of 40-50 points for a stay at home, second pair guy...Selling low happens

"You got Jackman sittin' down there bleeding. You may be in a baseball stadium, but that's hockey."

What a great line.

Right now, I'm not even sure how you reset the defense to make it better, with Schenn and Grossmann playing like they are and Timmo and Meszaros UFA.

I mean, seriously: As much as I want to see four different guys doing great things, that won't happen. Realistically, you can only replace so many guys. Some of these improvements have to come from within.

Luke Schenn and Grossmann...they can't play like this. They simply cannot play like this, at their ages and experience levels. It's one thing to be slow, but what we're seeing right now is something else entirely.
- AllInForFlyers

Schenn should be a 5-6 dman with limited minutes right now but we don't have the luxury of providing him that

Sure it is. When a guy becomes a cancer, he gets dumped for less than value. Look at Dany Heatley. You want to trim fat? You have to dump it for less than full value. You don't often get full value for a guy you are ecstatic to get rid of. Not a lot of Scott Gomez deals out there.

Hell, look at the Del Zotto for Klein deal. a young defenseman capable of 40-50 points for a stay at home, second pair guy...Selling low happens
- Jsaquella

Are the rangers better for it? No. Look at how many teams up play a guy when they want to get rid of them...Look poop happens, but its not just hartnell thats not back checking most of the forwards arent. Are you going to sit them all out as well?

Anyways man i respect your opinion even though i dont agree on buf...have a good night.

Are the rangers better for it? No. Look at how many teams up play a guy when they want to get rid of them...Look poop happens, but its not just hartnell thats not back checking most of the forwards arent. Are you going to sit them all out as well?
- PhillaBully

Yes. You can't just sit guys like Downie & Rosehill. You don't sit a guy like Giroux or Voracek for a week or ten days, usually guys like that get pissed if you bench them for a period.

It's about sending a message. Sitting Downie for a few games doesn't send a message, but if they sat Giroux for the third period today, it would have sent a loud message.

You seem to be taking things I say to the extreme. I'm not saying to bench guys for long stretches. I'm saying do it to send a message. If the message doesn't get received, then you step it up.

But this group of players has shown it can play solid defense for a period of time, and they do have pride. Sometimes you just have to stir the pot a bit.

Yes. You can't just sit guys like Downie & Rosehill. You don't sit a guy like Giroux or Voracek for a week or ten days, usually guys like that get pissed if you bench them for a period.

It's about sending a message. Sitting Downie for a few games doesn't send a message, but if they sat Giroux for the third period today, it would have sent a loud message.

You seem to be taking things I say to the extreme. I'm not saying to bench guys for long stretches. I'm saying do it to send a message. If the message doesn't get received, then you step it up.

But this group of players has shown it can play solid defense for a period of time, and they do have pride. Sometimes you just have to stir the pot a bit.
- Jsaquella

I agree with you on the sitting out part, you try that first. I just dont see it working for a prolonged period of time. Anyway good night man.

I agree with you on the sitting out part, you try that first. I just dont see it working for a prolonged period of time. Anyway good night man.
- PhillaBully

Same to you, good discussion.

see if they went for Maata and Risto they wouldnt be having these problems....personally some of their scouts have to go.
- PhillaBully

Risto was taken at #8 by Buffalo while we had #11. Though I agree with you on Maata.

Generally, if you bury a guy, he becomes more willing to waive his NTC...and it usually doesn't take 4-5 years.

These guys want to be playing. Regardless of the NTC
- Jsaquella

i don't understand how some posters can't grasp the fact that every team hands out NTCs like they are going out of style. Its the norm now just to get a player to sign.

If they want a guy to waive his NTC there are plenty of ways to do it - losing is just one of them.

Yes. You can't just sit guys like Downie & Rosehill. You don't sit a guy like Giroux or Voracek for a week or ten days, usually guys like that get pissed if you bench them for a period.

It's about sending a message. Sitting Downie for a few games doesn't send a message, but if they sat Giroux for the third period today, it would have sent a loud message.

You seem to be taking things I say to the extreme. I'm not saying to bench guys for long stretches. I'm saying do it to send a message. If the message doesn't get received, then you step it up.

But this group of players has shown it can play solid defense for a period of time, and they do have pride. Sometimes you just have to stir the pot a bit.
- Jsaquella

THIS!

I think Mason is better in every category. Bryz was only good when he was facing the shooter. He can't handle the puck and his lateral movement is so much worse than Mason's. I think Emery is fairly comparable to Bryz except he's better mentally, plays the puck better and a better teammate.
- PhillySportsGuy

Im not saying mason isnt better either, but a lot of the criticism bryz took, looks unwarranted.

I thought Bryz played well here. Sure he gave up some weak goals.. but it's got to be hard to work your ass off for a team that refuses to play defense.

We could have Patrick Roy and we wouldn't win a cup.
- Flyersgod

Exactly.

Since Pronger's career ended, the Flyers goalies have posted the following save %:

2011-12 : Bryz .909, Bobrovsky .899
2012-13: Bryz .900, Mason .944, Boucher .891, Leighton .808
2013-14: Mason .915, Emery .898

It ain't all the (frank)ing goalies. Team defense has been abysmal.
- Jsaquella

Thats what i tried to say before bit we needed to play musical goalies to figure it out i guess... Thanks.

Thats what i tried to say before bit we needed to play musical goalies to figure it out i guess... Thanks.
- JoeRussomanno

I still like Mason's overall play and professionalism much more than Bryzgalovs, but until they overhaul the D AND the forwards commit to working hard defensively, this team is going nowhere.

Thats what i tried to say before bit we needed to play musical goalies to figure it out i guess... Thanks.
- JoeRussomanno

I'm here for you, Joe

I'm here for you, Joe
- Jsaquella

I still like Mason's overall play and professionalism much more than Bryzgalovs, but until they overhaul the D AND the forwards commit to working hard defensively, this team is going nowhere.
- BiggE

In those terms, yes he's an upgrade. But again, bryzgalov wasnt quite the villian he was made out to be.