I agree with most of what's being said....there is no magic trade that will fix what's wrong with this team.....yes there d is sub par....yes they lack discipline ...and by that I can't think of one guy that hasn't taken a lazy penalty....my issue is their work ethic....I'm not sure what Berube is watching but it's every game....
My example is simple ...with the Bruins leading 6-1 yesturday the flyers had 4 guys off the rush, Streit went to the net and had a great opportunity! but was foiled by the back checking forward who started five strides behind but made it up.....all four bloody lines on the Bruins back check....in a 6-1 game...that's how the game is supposed to be played.....the Flyers back check and commit to defense far too infrequently...and honestly some of the worst culprits are the best players....
The Bruins DESRVE to be where they are....the Flyers Deserve to be in their spot....they have enough talent to contend every game .
Until Berube has more then Downie and Meszaros as a whipping boys club this team will continue to be mediocre.

The thing about positivity and negativity is this: It doesn't mean a thing to the players on the ice.

It won't help, or hurt, players' foot speed, hockey sense, level of skill. It won't make a player more willing to go in the corners or stand in front of the net, and it won't help a player become stronger once they get there.

Over 82 games, there are games you will win that you should. There are games you will lose that you should. There are games you will win that you shouldn't have, and there are games you will lose that you shouldn't have.

All teams go through bad streaks and good streaks, as noted in the article. But the best teams have margin for error, lesser teams have far less room to move.

My point is this: Being positive is always better. But what is said here or on Twitter or Philly.com isn't going to matter over the course of these next 29 games, or this next pivotal stretch before the Olympics.

Bill Parcells said it best: At any given moment, you are what your record says you are, and you learn more about your team when you lose than when you win.

At the end of the season, we'll know for sure what the Flyers are -- and what they likely are is a team that will still need more mobile defensemen, more speed in certain spots of their forward lineup, a fourth-line winger who can provide some worry-free shifts, and continued development of the younger players in their lineup like Couturier and Schenn.

Harping on players....we all do it. But it doesn't make them play better or worse. It's just background noise. It makes the wins sweeter and the losses bitter, and it's just part of sports.

The past is immaterial, and I strongly disagree about sustained success for Grossmann compared to Meszaros. Grossmann has had issues before this year, especially with the puck.

If a guy has several bad games in a short period of time, what he did before shouldn't matter.
- Jsaquella

Arranging the Flyers d at this point is like arranging deck chairs on the titanic. Until the entire team buys in to a defensive system and is willing to work as hard as the other team then nothing will change.

The past is immaterial, and I strongly disagree about sustained success for Grossmann compared to Meszaros. Grossmann has had issues before this year, especially with the puck.

If a guy has several bad games in a short period of time, what he did before shouldn't matter.
- Jsaquella

And this is exactly the thing about pro sports that will always be true: Progression and regression are two very real things. Players will do both, over the course of their careers.

What can't be done is always look at what a player has done and then lull yourself into thinking that, automatically, that player is still capable of doing it. Players age. Injuries mount up. Skills erode. Desire wanes. Whatever the case may be in specific players, performance always declines.

Bill Parcells also said something else that holds true: You can't put tread back on a tire.

If the Flyers have too many limited players, and those players show regression or actual decline...it won't matter how well they played even a year ago, or a month ago. And people saying that "Player X will snap out of it, stop being negative," won't change Eric Lindros' final year in Dallas, for example.

Arranging the Flyers d at this point is like arranging deck chairs on the titanic. Until the entire team buys in to a defensive system and is willing to work as hard as the other team then nothing will change.
- landros 2

This is exactly how I feel about it. Well put.

Arranging the Flyers d at this point is like arranging deck chairs on the titanic. Until the entire team buys in to a defensive system and is willing to work as hard as the other team then nothing will change.
- landros 2

I get it. I get it all.

I understand the points of view from both the "experts" to the"Hockey 101" group who voice their frustration over the curious off season signings, poor play, questionable roster selections and line pairings.

I understand the hair pulling, chair throwing, wall beating-like verbal assault being spewed on this blog after every depressing loss and all the suggestions offered as quick fix remedies from player movement, to coaching/GM changes.

I. like most of us, stand guilty as charged on occasion.

But also, like the vast majority of us, I want nothing more than an honest effort each and every night at the very least, regardless of who is in the lineup, regardless of the talent. I don't think this is too much to ask for. I've seen the best this team can offer and the worst. And I truly believe at the end of the day that they are somewhere in the middle. And that's the part that fries my butt. We should be better.

It's the chicken or the egg question. Has the GM put together a team capable, both physically and mentally, of a deep run toward the Cup, both this year and for years to come, or is it the coach who cannot prepare a team properly to compete every night? Until that's ironed out and we're back to where we as the fan base believe this team should be, this kind of ranting will most likely continue.
- 77rams

This is 100% where I'm at.

No offense Bill, but after a game like that anyone who devotes as much time and money into this team as well all do I don't want to see people with very valid criticisms be undercut. 99% of us who were/are upset aren't looking for the one magical move to fix the team as you describe. We see what on the ice is not working with the players in house. We've seen this for two years now. The D is slow and can't make outlet passes. We're not asking for Weber or the next Lidstrom. We're asking they address that need. And yes, some of us have gotten to the point where our unreadable list is pretty slim. For me it's two years of this mess on D with no plan in site for it to end. They could have had Hamilton, they could of had Matta. This past draft th hey should have taken someone much closer to the NHL. With good D men rarely hitting UFAS status I don't see how people expect us to do anything else but start looking for trades.

Just needed to get that out. I agree with generally every aspect of all of your blogs almost every day. This is just one instance where we couldn't be much further apart.

Don't be negative, just keep paying $$$ & enjoy!

no offense, but you take the whiners out & the building is 1/2 empty, nice!

Don't be negative, enjoy the blowouts
- puckhead17

Who doesn't ?

But....what of you ooo'd and ahh'd because you didn't realize Hartnell was offside because you were putting your laundry away....

Don't be negative, just keep paying $$$ & enjoy!

no offense, but you take the whiners out & the building is 1/2 empty, nice!

Don't be negative, enjoy the blowouts
- puckhead17

Winning should never be accepted in Philly. We're not Toronto. If a team sucks, fix it for the long run.

Excellent post. I've felt exactly the same, seeing the trouble brewing quite a while ago. The defense is what it is; if Grossman isn't playing well, they are sunk. He's been their most reliable D man this season.

What the hell is wrong with Lecavlier? He's been a huge disappointment all season. I know sometimes it can take a while for a top shelf guy to adjust to a new team, but I haven't seen ANY of his individual talent. He's not skating and handling the puck, making or receiving passes cleanly, committing lots of turnovers.

I think he still has the capacity to be a game-breaker, but where is it?

Excellent post. I've felt exactly the same, seeing the trouble brewing quite a while ago. The defense is what it is; if Grossman isn't playing well, they are sunk. He's been their most reliable D man this season.

What the hell is wrong with Lecavlier? He's been a huge disappointment all season. I know sometimes it can take a while for a top shelf guy to adjust to a new team, but I haven't seen ANY of his individual talent. He's not skating and handling the puck, making or receiving passes cleanly, committing lots of turnovers.

I think he still has the capacity to be a game-breaker, but where is it?
- element_104

I think because he is such a standup, likeable guy, Vinny has escaped a bit of well earned criticism. Yes, I know he had the back injury in Dec, but he's just not the impact player I thought he would be. I can only speak for myself, but I thought he would add a bit of what was lost when we let Jagr get away. Playmaking, scoring, leadership etc. But really he's had much less of an impact than I thought he would going into the season.

You are what Bill was talking about in his article. You are so negative. You act like they are the worst team in the league. They are finally holding onto draft picks, they are finally paying attention to defense in the draft, they finally have a good young goalie that they have invested in and they (so far this season) have not been willing to trade promising young players for veterans.

It will take time to get out of the hole they are in. But to say they will never compete again when all they have done under Snider is compete is pure nonsense. I know they have not won in awhile but you cannot argue that this franchise wants to win.
- mickel25

Agreed! There will always be people who overreact, and spout ultra negative prose about management, personnel, or both. While most are way over the top with their solutions, and more reactionary than well thought out, you can't argue with their passion. It's extremely frustrating, I agree. If there are a couple issues that I can, and will, echo from Bill, is the lack of 60 minute efforts, puck support, and undiciplined play (dumb penalties). Just because one player makes 6mil, and the other 600k, does not make him less responsible to his teammates. In fact, he has more responsibility! That is where the coaching comes in. If you are not buying into the system, or supporting your teammates 100%, then you sit too!! I'd rather have a season or two of missing the playoffs, to create the RIGHT MIX of players, attitudes, and coaching it takes, to bring a cup back to Philly! What I can't stomach, is a lack of effort and support. Give me 100%, and I'll support you back. One needs not look very far to see how poor the despised Pens were prior to drafting Crosby and Malkin. Success is measured by the Stanley Cup in he NHL. No will care that you made to to the playoffs 13 of 15 years. We'll look back and remember what a glorious run it was during a cup winning year. So let's be a little patient people, but not let anyone off the hook from doing their jobs, either.

My rant is over. Phewww!

NESN feed guys at the 1st intermission:

The one gentleman was amazed at how easily the Bruins were able to cruise around and pass the puck around the Flyers. He mentioned how lifeless Philly looked and how there was almost no physical play on the defensive side of the puck, how the Flyers were just going through the motions with a stick sweep/check. Another key item he addressed was how a team like the Flyers would always get up for a Bruins game and that things must be 'bad' in Philadelphia for the Flyers to look so listless.
- Pixote Andolini

those guys are soooo negative, man!
problem is that the flyers need to bring their A game for 60 minutes every night to be successful for long stretches, which is something they have demonstrated over the last 5 years they struggle to do. better teams can win with less than full marks on many night, especially against weaker teams; again, the flyers often fail to put away teams below them in the standings for some reason. i think the team has some good young players, and POSSIBLY some in the system that can help at some point. i think they may be a playoff bubble team, but there is an equal chance they are not even quite that good, as currently constructed, given the tendency to give weak efforts much of the time and the problems that happen when they play that way.
i do not think that makes me negative. i care deeply about this team (possibly too much) and i'm kind of frustrated with some of the attitude i see from the front office. there is talk about accountability on the ice leading to ice time or being scratched from the line up. i believe there should be accountability for having a cap-strapped, middle of the pack team, with an old, slow and immobile defensive corps and a fairly weak prospect pool within the org-in-ization.

The past is immaterial, and I strongly disagree about sustained success for Grossmann compared to Meszaros. Grossmann has had issues before this year, especially with the puck.

If a guy has several bad games in a short period of time, what he did before shouldn't matter.
- Jsaquella

So by your logic, we should have, at the very least, moved Giroux down in the lineup when he struggled to open the season.

The past means nothing, we can only measure a player's future success based on the last month.

So by your logic, we should have, at the very least, moved Giroux down in the lineup when he struggled to open the season.

The past means nothing, we can only measure a player's future success based on the last month.
- PhillySportsGuy

that is not apples to apples comparison between a player like G, who has the ability to light it up each time he is on the ice, and an averge-at-best guy who has been mistake prone.
i have heard people suggest that G might benefit from a night or two in the press box, and maybe it would wake him up.

that is not apples to apples comparison between a player like G, who has the ability to light it up each time he is on the ice, and an averge-at-best guy who has been mistake prone.
i have heard people suggest that G might benefit from a night or two in the press box, and maybe it would wake him up.
- hogweed

So if any player other than Giroux struggles for a few weeks, he deserves to be benched or dropped in the lineup?

So if any player other than Giroux struggles for a few weeks, he deserves to be benched or dropped in the lineup?
- PhillySportsGuy

That's what coaching is -- those are the lineup decisions that have to be made.

Scott Hartnell played better after being dropped down. Michael Raffl started to play better after being moved up.

It won't always work. It won't always fail. But those are the decisions that have be made -- and sometimes, not making those decisions is detrimental to the team.

So berube thinks its a confidence issue eh? Good, give every player a viagra before the game and get back to winning ... smh.

That's what coaching is -- those are the lineup decisions that have to be made.

Scott Hartnell played better after being dropped down. Michael Raffl started to play better after being moved up.

It won't always work. It won't always fail. But those are the decisions that have be made -- and sometimes, not making those decisions is detrimental to the team.
- AllInForFlyers

Whats more frustrating to me is that certain players don't seem to pay any price for lazy/sloppy play. I can think of at least 3 shorthanded goals where Giroux wasn't hustling back in the slightest, benching him for a period or 2 would have been absolutely appropriate IMO. When Hartnell takes a really stupid penalty, his butt should be glued to the bench for at least a period.

I'm not going to rip a guy for overskating a puck, getting beat by a faster player in a footrace or getting out muscled by a larger, stronger player. However laziness and foolishness should and must be punished. The best coaches in Flyers history, Shero, Keenan and Hitchcock would have no problem benching any player that they felt were either dogging it or making the same mental errors again and again.

That's what coaching is -- those are the lineup decisions that have to be made.

Scott Hartnell played better after being dropped down. Michael Raffl started to play better after being moved up.

It won't always work. It won't always fail. But those are the decisions that have be made -- and sometimes, not making those decisions is detrimental to the team.
- AllInForFlyers

Yes. I'm sure the players would play with a ton of confidence knowing that a rough stretch will get them benched.

Look at Vincent Lecavalier right now -- who, for the record, I still think can play.

But six months ago, Steve Yzerman took a look at his team, looked at Lecavalier's contract, overall play, and what he had on his team...and made a decision.

He made a choice, about his team and lineup would look. It couldn't have easy, or fun. It wasn't because of what fans thought or wrote on the Internet, and it wasn't based on what Lecavalier did in the past or off the ice.

He did what was in the best interests of the hockey club. Those are the kinds of decisions that have to be made -- and just because Lecavalier was still productive doesn't mean you get to hide behind that when you're weighing what's best for the club.

And it definitely doesn't mean that if a guy hasn't played well for weeks, then he automatically should get to stay where he is in the lineup, just because of what he's done before -- every individual case is different.

Whats more frustrating to me is that certain players don't seem to pay any price for lazy/sloppy play. I can think of at least 3 shorthanded goals where Giroux wasn't hustling back in the slightest, benching him for a period or 2 would have been absolutely appropriate IMO. When Hartnell takes a really stupid penalty, his butt should be glued to the bench for at least a period.

I'm not going to rip a guy for overskating a puck, getting beat by a faster player in a footrace or getting out muscled by a larger, stronger player. However laziness and foolishness should and must be punished. The best coaches in Flyers history, Shero, Keenan and Hitchcock would have no problem benching any player that they felt were either dogging it or making the same mental errors again and again.
- BiggE

Exactly -- no one gets a free pass.

Some will always get longer rope -- Mario Lemieux doesn't have to backcheck as much as Chris Vandevelde to stay in the lineup. But at the same time, it's corrosive to the team if Mario Lemieux NEVER backchecks.

These players know the deal. They know how it works. Claude Giroux isn't quite the same as Steve Downie. But at the same time, that doesn't mean Giroux doesn't have to do ANYTHING at the standard the team needs, and shouldn't be held accountable for when he doesn't.

The best teams tend to be talented AND have its best players do the right things almost all of the time. That's never changed.

So by your logic, we should have, at the very least, moved Giroux down in the lineup when he struggled to open the season.

The past means nothing, we can only measure a player's future success based on the last month.
- PhillySportsGuy

Despite producing at lower than expected levels for his own production, Giroux was still among team leaders in scoring when he was struggling.

You overstate Grossmann's level of play. He's always been a limited, stay at home defenseman. Even when Giroux wasn't producing at past rates, he was still creating chances

EDIT you also have to base things on team needs. Giroux is more vital to the Flyers chances of success than Grossmann. They have 3 or 4 guys that can do what Grossmann does.

So if any player other than Giroux struggles for a few weeks, he deserves to be benched or dropped in the lineup?
- PhillySportsGuy

not saying that. i'm sayig that when a star player has a rough start you might treat that differently than a guy like downie or grossman, who seem to be struggling for longer. maybe if you think G still is lacking effort consistently then letting him sit a game or two might not be a terrible thing