im not denying that he couldnt get it. i just know that i wouldnt. he would literally be a perfect missing piece for the pens, and i wouldnt sign him given the opportunity if these numbers are correct.

sometimes, the best moves are the ones that you dont make.
- stayinthefnnet

Absolutely. Callahan is a very solid player. Good leadership, works hard, can provide good two way play. Just can see how paying him $6mm a year until he's 35 or 36 is a good idea, given the way he plays.

I'm not interested in Green, Buff, or Campbell. I am only interested in younger, talented 2 way defenseman. Replacing heavily defensive dmen with heavily offensive defensmen is not what the flyers need, IMO. Need two way players who can eat up minutes.

I'm sure it will and a GM that signs Callahan for that term and money will likely be making a mistake, just like Nonis made a mistake in signing Clarkson to that big a contract.

Sometimes, paying market value is a mistake. That's kind of the point. Clarkson was a dumb contract. A massive deal for Callahan will be dumb
- Jsaquella

I don't look at it as dumb contracts, but as the cost of doing business. If you need that player to improve your team, that's the price you pay. You either pay it or don't add the player you think you need.

It doesn't, I agree with all of this.
- mochoson

Grossmann would be fine if paired consistently on the 2nd pairing with a mobile partner, however the Flyers just lack the pieces to make it work.

Ideally, the Flyers need someone with all around skills and mobility to pair with Coburn on the top pair. Then you have a decision to make if you are going to go with Gus-Schenn as the 3rd pairing. Streit-Grossmann just won't work, not enough speed. Since Streit is virtually untradeable and they aren't gonna buy him out after 1 season, I think you have to try and move Grossmann as part of a deal to acquire more mobility on D.

I'm not interested in Green, Buff, or Campbell. I am only interested in younger, talented 2 way defenseman. Replacing heavily defensive dmen with heavily offensive defensmen is not what the flyers need, IMO. Need two way players who can eat up minutes.
- funmaster18

I agree 100%.

In my opinion the Flyers played the "perfect" but still realistic game last night to beat the Kings.

I say realistic because LA is not going to allow themselves to be hemmed into their own zone very often. It just doesn't happen. Of course you want to see the Flyers dominate them in the Ozone but it just will not happen. To beat them, you need good goaltending, you need to stay out of the box, and you need to be opportunistic with your offense.

The Flyers did all 3 of them last night against the Kings, and look at that- came away with the W.

Hopefully we can see a little more offensive zone mojo against a Sharks team which, to put it simply, doesn't play like the Kings.

Awesome to hear MAB is having good games in the A. I'm psyched to see him playing hockey again, let alone playing it effectively! If he can round into his pre-concussed form he'd be a pretty solid addition to this blueline. Only problem is he creates even more of a log jam at that point

LA is not going to allow themselves to be hemmed into their own zone very often. It just doesn't happen. To beat them, you need good goaltending, you need to stay out of the box, and you need to be opportunistic with your offense.

The Flyers did all 3 of them last night against the Kings, and look at that- came away with the W.

- Giroux_Is_God

Dead on analysis!

I don't look at it as dumb contracts, but as the cost of doing business. If you need that player to improve your team, that's the price you pay. You either pay it or don't add the player you think you need.
- MJL

Or you find a viable alternative. Neither Callahan or Clarkson have a unique skill set, worthy of such a massive commitment.

Call it whatever you want, but overspending for a fairly common commodity is dumb

That's why when I read that Hartnell or Lecavalier's deals are bad deals, I find it puzzling. As the cap rises salaries are going to escalate. We've already seen it with the Clarkson deal. And the years go by, the Hartnell and Lecavalier deals are going to look better and better. And become cheaper and cheaper.
- MJL

proper evaluation of their deals will be tied to their production, and by connection to that, their health.

Or you find a viable alternative. Neither Callahan or Clarkson have a unique skill set, worthy of such a massive commitment.

Call it whatever you want, but overspending for a fairly common commodity is dumb
- Jsaquella

I think if that commodity was that fairly common or that easy to acquire. Or if there were plenty of equal alternatives, then the player wouldn't be able to command that deal. And GM's wouldn't get into bidding wars for players.

proper evaluation of their deals will be tied to their production, and by connection to that, their health.
- stayinthefnnet

The same can be said for every player.

I'm not interested in Green, Buff, or Campbell. I am only interested in younger, talented 2 way defenseman. Replacing heavily defensive dmen with heavily offensive defensmen is not what the flyers need, IMO. Need two way players who can eat up minutes.
- funmaster18

then what combination of quality assets are you willing to part with though? you cant have that exclusivity in acquisition and yet have this laundry list of untouchable forwards

Grossmann would be fine if paired consistently on the 2nd pairing with a mobile partner, however the Flyers just lack the pieces to make it work.

Ideally, the Flyers need someone with all around skills and mobility to pair with Coburn on the top pair. Then you have a decision to make if you are going to go with Gus-Schenn as the 3rd pairing. Streit-Grossmann just won't work, not enough speed. Since Streit is virtually untradeable and they aren't gonna buy him out after 1 season, I think you have to try and move Grossmann as part of a deal to acquire more mobility on D.
- BiggE

I doubt they find a ton of interest in Grossmann. There's several solid, stay at home guys available in free agency, unless there's a team at the TDL that really feels they need him.

Even then, it'll be a team that isn't looking to move roster talent, but picks and prospects, in all likelihood.

The same can be said for every player.
- MJL

true. im not a fan at all of long deals, but i realize that if i was a GM and attempted to stick to my guns too much, i wouldnt get many return phone calls, so its not a position i envy.

that being said though, not all deals are entered into with the same level of risks.

I doubt they find a ton of interest in Grossmann. There's several solid, stay at home guys available in free agency, unless there's a team at the TDL that really feels they need him.

Even then, it'll be a team that isn't looking to move roster talent, but picks and prospects, in all likelihood.
- Jsaquella

like many of you guys have said before, if murray can garner 2 seconds...

true. im not a fan at all of long deals, but i realize that if i was a GM and attempted to stick to my guns too much, i wouldnt get many return phone calls, so its not a position i envy.

that being said though, not all deals are entered into with the same level of risks.
- stayinthefnnet

Definitely agree on the latter! Not easy being a GM. Salaries are escalating every year.

I doubt they find a ton of interest in Grossmann. There's several solid, stay at home guys available in free agency, unless there's a team at the TDL that really feels they need him.

Even then, it'll be a team that isn't looking to move roster talent, but picks and prospects, in all likelihood.
- Jsaquella

My pipe dream is sending Grossmann and a 3rd/4th to Edm for a 2nd.

RELAX PEOPLE I SAID PIPE DREAM

I think if that commodity was that fairly common or that easy to acquire. Or if there were plenty of equal alternatives, then the player wouldn't be able to command that deal. And GM's wouldn't get into bidding wars for players.
- MJL

Clarke MacArthur is vastly outperforming Clarkson for 5 fewer years and about half the cap hit. Clarkson has one 30 goal season, which is also the only time he topped 17 goals in his career.

A decent, gritty winger who can score 15-17 goals isn't exactly a rarity. Callahan is a better player, but there's also the very real likelihood that he's not performing at his usual 22-25 goal level by the end of the deal.

Sometimes it's smarter to sign a "lesser" player.

like many of you guys have said before, if murray can garner 2 seconds...
- stayinthefnnet

Murray was at the end of a relatively cheap deal. Grossmann is making $3.5mm and has another season left on his deal.

I'm not interested in Green, Buff, or Campbell. I am only interested in younger, talented 2 way defenseman. Replacing heavily defensive dmen with heavily offensive defensmen is not what the flyers need, IMO. Need two way players who can eat up minutes.
- funmaster18

And when they can realistically trade for or sign one of those, I am in 1000% agreement.

Clarke MacArthur is vastly outperforming Clarkson for 5 fewer years and about half the cap hit. Clarkson has one 30 goal season, which is also the only time he topped 17 goals in his career.

A decent, gritty winger who can score 15-17 goals isn't exactly a rarity. Callahan is a better player, but there's also the very real likelihood that he's not performing at his usual 22-25 goal level by the end of the deal.

Sometimes it's smarter to sign a "lesser" player.
- Jsaquella

Not advocating a Callahan signing because I don't think he'd be worth it for this team, but Ryan does play a MUCH better defensive game than MacArthur. Now is that worth a 3 mill+ difference? Maybe not....but it certainly, in my eyes, is why Callahan would be worth more.

Definitely agree on the latter! Not easy being a GM. Salaries are escalating every year.
- MJL

the VL one for example. at this stage in his career, taking into the totality of the factors, no i dont think it is a good contract. however, if youre holmgren and you truly think he can be that piece to make you take that next step to being better, youre in a bad spot. either you give him that extra year, or extra 1.5 AAV, or he signs elsewhere because someone will give it to him.

its no longer a matter of not having bad deals, but just trying to avoid egregious levels of bad.

true. im not a fan at all of long deals, but i realize that if i was a GM and attempted to stick to my guns too much, i wouldnt get many return phone calls, so its not a position i envy.

that being said though, not all deals are entered into with the same level of risks.
- stayinthefnnet

Well, you have to pick and choose. A guy like Ryan Getzlaff or Claude Giroux...Yeah, I'll overpay, happily. Because those are skillsets you won't find anywhere else.

Ryan Callahan is a damned good player, but he's not elite. If you're in a place where he's the last piece of the puzzle, fine, you might bite the bullet and pay him. I'm sure if the Rangers were a more serious contender they would simply do that.

But there's maybe two or three teams that are in that spot where a guy like Callahan is the difference between a parade or not.

Not advocating a Callahan signing because I don't think he'd be worth it for this team, but Ryan does play a MUCH better defensive game than MacArthur. Now is that worth a 3 mill+ difference? Maybe not....but it certainly, in my eyes, is why Callahan would be worth more.
- Giroux_Is_God

He does play a better all around game, but you can find a good defensive winger for peanuts. Hell Max Talbot is a good defensive winger and he makes $1.75mm.

Again, if you see Callahan as that last piece of a Stanley Cup team, spend the money and give him the years. But how many teams are that one piece away?

Clarke MacArthur is vastly outperforming Clarkson for 5 fewer years and about half the cap hit. Clarkson has one 30 goal season, which is also the only time he topped 17 goals in his career.

A decent, gritty winger who can score 15-17 goals isn't exactly a rarity. Callahan is a better player, but there's also the very real likelihood that he's not performing at his usual 22-25 goal level by the end of the deal.

Sometimes it's smarter to sign a "lesser" player.
- Jsaquella

That's one player. And I wouldn't put MacArthur as the same type of player that Clarkson is. Clarkson brings some assets to the team that Toronto wanted instead. Toronto had MacArthur and went in a different direction. Clarkson has had suspension and injury issues, and hasn't gotten off to a strong start in Toronto. But the outcome of signing a Free Agent long term certainly isn't decided on 36 games or parts of one season. To be determined.