Well, they tried to load up on slower, bad transitional guys with limited ability....God forbid they add a one way guy who can actually skate the puck out of trouble.
- Jsaquella

Agree.

Though I'd rather have a well rounded d-man with a great first pass out of the zone, but I wouldn't object he he could skate it out too.

With any player or defenseman, you look at how they compliment each other to make a solid pairing. I guess it comes down to how you want to rate your players. By the metric that you propose, that means that there's only 10 legitimate 2nd pairing defenseman in the NHL. And we know that's not the case. And by the way, I agree that Grossmann wouldn't play in the top 4 for any of those teams, but he would look a hell of a lot better playing there.
I do however think that you can use that as a measuring stick of how the Flyers need to improve the mix of their back end, by comparing it to the better teams in the League. But I don't think that changes what kind of player Grossmann is.
- MJL

It doesn't, I agree with all of this.

Trust me, I do not believe that free agency is going to solve the Flyers' problems.

I wouldn't mind Stralman on the roster, the problem is that he's another bottom-pair guy on a team that already has too many -- especially if/when Timonen goes.

That being said, I'd absolutely take a lateral move for more mobility, and Stralman's always been able to skate.
- AllInForFlyers

I agree. If the Flyers can add a lesser player that is as reliable defensively as Grossmann is, can play a physical game, but has better mobility. I'd be all for it. Depending on cost of course.
I think we need to get back to talking about the mix more so then individual players. A little too heavy on the defensive defenseman side. But I think they need to add an all around player versus another offensive defenseman.

i wonder if the sharks would do a justin braun or matt irwin for grossman trade
- 2Real

This is my thing. If the Flyers can try to bring in another younger d-man around this deadline, I would cream myself.

You cant look at the chance of maybe playing a playoff round as being more important. If you can unload say anyone other than Coburn on that back end I do it. Hartnell and Downie up front as well.

Teams overpay at the deadline.

i wonder if the sharks would do a justin braun or matt irwin for grossman trade
- 2Real

I'd probably do Grossman for Matt Irwin. I don't think they'll give up Justin Braun. Kid was only suppose to be a 5-7 guy and has made huge strides. Their very high on him.

Just goes to show you it doesn't kill to be patient and develop players, ESPECIALLY defensemen. Hoping we have a similar situation with Bourdon.

Stralman is a capable second pair guy. He's been in a top four role for the Rangers and handled it well. Not as much offense as one would like, but he's definitely more mobile than most of the current group
- Jsaquella

OK -- with Del Zotto's fall from grace, Vigneault's gotten a bit more out of him, then?

He's right-handed, too -- again, that's a lateral move, maybe even an upgrade, I wouldn't mind at all seeing made.

I mean, we're going to have somebody different next year, in a spot or two or three, depending on if Timonen's isn't back, and I don't know if there's any real reason to believe he will be.

Yeah...man. It'd be interesting to see how this team would look with a guy who could consistently do that.

The thing about McPhee is that he's such a cautious trader -- he appears to be one of those who won't trade in his division.
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah, not sure McPhee would consider an in-division move that big.

But yeah, Streit is a one way defenseman, but he's not an exceptional skater. He's a guy that usually passes the puck out of danger. Green would bring an element the Flyers sorely lack-he gets the puck on his stick, he can simply skate it up ice and out of danger.

There's definitely warts to his game, but the lack of his skill set on the team makes me more forgiving of those warts.

This is my thing. If the Flyers can try to bring in another younger d-man around this deadline, I would cream myself.

You cant look at the chance of maybe playing a playoff round as being more important. If you can unload say anyone other than Coburn on that back end I do it. Hartnell and Downie up front as well.

Teams overpay at the deadline.
- flyer_nutter

The Flyers need to view every potential trade in the same way. Does it make the team better, especially for the future. Don't really understand why the Flyers should be looking to trade Hartnell. Only reason is if the return is to good to turn down. Otherwise, the Flyers should not be looking to trade Hartnell.

Yeah, not sure McPhee would consider an in-division move that big.

But yeah, Streit is a one way defenseman, but he's not an exceptional skater. He's a guy that usually passes the puck out of danger. Green would bring an element the Flyers sorely lack-he gets the puck on his stick, he can simply skate it up ice and out of danger.

There's definitely warts to his game, but the lack of his skill set on the team makes me more forgiving of those warts.
- Jsaquella

Perfect partner for Coburn. Both guys can skate. Would be good for top line too, as that pair would probably be out with them more often than not.

Adding a skating element to the D is crucial IMO. So many times I see Giroux and Voracek trying to make plays, only for them to die on other players sticks who just aren't at their level.

I'd probably do Grossman for Matt Irwin. I don't think they'll give up Justin Braun. Kid was only suppose to be a 5-7 guy and has made huge strides. Their very high on him.

Just goes to show you it doesn't kill to be patient and develop players, ESPECIALLY defensemen. Hoping we have a similar situation with Bourdon.
- mochoson

Bourdon has big injury concerns. I did like him in his time up with the team. Physical, and made a decent first pass along with a hard shot.

Its not the favoured frame of thinking here, but post trade deadline, I would love to see Lauridsen, Guss, Alt and Bourdon if possible get time up with the big club, and with Guss bigger minutes.

I don't believe in that current D core, nor do I think more than 1 or two of them will be here when the team is ready to establish itself as a cup contender. The kids at the very least, have room to improve.

This is my thing. If the Flyers can try to bring in another younger d-man around this deadline, I would cream myself.

You cant look at the chance of maybe playing a playoff round as being more important. If you can unload say anyone other than Coburn on that back end I do it. Hartnell and Downie up front as well.

Teams overpay at the deadline.
- flyer_nutter

i'm telling you man the sharks are one vet dman from being scary these coming playoffs i hope our guys play like studs on monday so they get on the sharks radar

Yeah, not sure McPhee would consider an in-division move that big.

But yeah, Streit is a one way defenseman, but he's not an exceptional skater. He's a guy that usually passes the puck out of danger. Green would bring an element the Flyers sorely lack-he gets the puck on his stick, he can simply skate it up ice and out of danger.

There's definitely warts to his game, but the lack of his skill set on the team makes me more forgiving of those warts.
- Jsaquella

I'd lick that toad.

Perfect partner for Coburn. Both guys can skate. Would be good for top line too, as that pair would probably be out with them more often than not.

Adding a skating element to the D is crucial IMO. So many times I see Giroux and Voracek trying to make plays, only for them to die on other players sticks who just aren't at their level.
- mochoson

With the Flyers potentially losing Timonen, and with the situations that he plays in along with Coburn. Adding a player like Green to play with Coburn. While having Streit also in the lineup would not be a good mix in my opinion.

I agree. If the Flyers can add a lesser player that is as reliable defensively as Grossmann is, can play a physical game, but has better mobility. I'd be all for it. Depending on cost of course.
I think we need to get back to talking about the mix more so then individual players. A little too heavy on the defensive defenseman side. But I think they need to add an all around player versus another offensive defenseman.
- MJL

That's totally fine -- we can certainly disagree on the type of player who would be brought in, but the current mix does have too many players of the same type.

The Flyers need to view every potential trade in the same way. Does it make the team better, especially for the future. Don't really understand why the Flyers should be looking to trade Hartnell. Only reason is if the return is to good to turn down. Otherwise, the Flyers should not be looking to trade Hartnell.
- MJL

I'll play with this one response.

Would you rather the Flyers give up the younger pieces, who have room at improving to bring in help for that back end?

Agree.

Though I'd rather have a well rounded d-man with a great first pass out of the zone, but I wouldn't object he he could skate it out too.
- 77rams

Certainly. I'd ideally like a guy who can do both, because it brings an element that the team lacks. If they had a Green or Campbell, who is a good skater, the forecheck that gives them so much trouble when the play the Devils or Bruins or Rangers is mitigated a bit.

They have too many guys who simply aren't that good at getting the puck out of the zone. Grossmann, despite the statistical atheism, is dreadful at it. Schenn & Meszaros are mediocre. Coburn isn't bad, but he's prone to mistakes at bad times.

Streit is a good passer, but he's only got average speed. Timonen is still effective, but he's lost a step or two. Gustafsson has good wheels and puck skills, but his play in his own end has been inconsistent and he's been dinged up.

A guy like Green or Campbell isn't a total panacea, but either would bring a badly missing element.

I'd probably do Grossman for Matt Irwin. I don't think they'll give up Justin Braun. Kid was only suppose to be a 5-7 guy and has made huge strides. Their very high on him.

Just goes to show you it doesn't kill to be patient and develop players, ESPECIALLY defensemen. Hoping we have a similar situation with Bourdon.
- mochoson

true i'm wishing for the best for bourdon he looked promising until all his concussions

i figured Braun would be a stretch the San Jose media loves him also calls him an all star stud dman
but matt irwin would look good as a replacement for grossman

Bourdon has big injury concerns. I did like him in his time up with the team. Physical, and made a decent first pass along with a hard shot.

Its not the favoured frame of thinking here, but post trade deadline, I would love to see Lauridsen, Guss, Alt and Bourdon if possible get time up with the big club, and with Guss bigger minutes.

I don't believe in that current D core, nor do I think more than 1 or two of them will be here when the team is ready to establish itself as a cup contender. The kids at the very least, have room to improve.
- flyer_nutter

For salary Cap reasons the Flyers should avoid the idea of whole sale call ups for extended looks in the regular season. If there's injuries then go ahead and do so if need be. But not just to get a look at these players.

Er, Giordano from Calgary?

Perfect partner for Coburn. Both guys can skate. Would be good for top line too, as that pair would probably be out with them more often than not.

Adding a skating element to the D is crucial IMO. So many times I see Giroux and Voracek trying to make plays, only for them to die on other players sticks who just aren't at their level.
- mochoson

That's 90% of my interest in a guy like Green. He's not as dynamic as he was, but he's still a plus skater and solid offensively. The cap hit sucks, but it's manageable and short term

Er, Giordano from Calgary?
- MunsterMike

He'd be nice, too...doubt Calgary moves him cheaply.

Certainly. I'd ideally like a guy who can do both, because it brings an element that the team lacks. If they had a Green or Campbell, who is a good skater, the forecheck that gives them so much trouble when the play the Devils or Bruins or Rangers is mitigated a bit.

They have too many guys who simply aren't that good at getting the puck out of the zone. Grossmann, despite the statistical atheism, is dreadful at it. Schenn & Meszaros are mediocre. Coburn isn't bad, but he's prone to mistakes at bad times.

Streit is a good passer, but he's only got average speed. Timonen is still effective, but he's lost a step or two. Gustafsson has good wheels and puck skills, but his play in his own end has been inconsistent and he's been dinged up.

A guy like Green or Campbell isn't a total panacea, but either would bring a badly missing element.
- Jsaquella

One guy who could break a forecheck...man, you already know I'd pay through the nose for that -- and they'd have to, because those salaries are no joke.

I'll play with this one response.

Would you rather the Flyers give up the younger pieces, who have room at improving to bring in help for that back end?
- flyer_nutter

Goes back to what the return is then doesn't it? What would the Flyers get for Hartnell? That is how a trade should be looked at. Not let's just try and trade Hartnell because someone doesn't like him. Hartnell is an important player on this team.

Er, Giordano from Calgary?
- MunsterMike

Love him as a player. Good all round d-man, and pretty good injury history. Solid leader.

I wanted to trade Hartnell for him at the deadline last year, when Feaster looked like he was high as a magic dragon. With him being named captain, and signed long term now...

Chance was missed there I think.

OK -- with Del Zotto's fall from grace, Vigneault's gotten a bit more out of him, then?

He's right-handed, too -- again, that's a lateral move, maybe even an upgrade, I wouldn't mind at all seeing made.

I mean, we're going to have somebody different next year, in a spot or two or three, depending on if Timonen's isn't back, and I don't know if there's any real reason to believe he will be.
- AllInForFlyers

I think he'd fit in real well. He's not a number one guy, but he's steady and skates well.