Well.... Steve Mason GA20 with Gusty: 0.472 GA20 without: 0.884
Emery GA20 with Gusty 0.501 GA20 without 0.802
- 2Real

It's all his fault.

Just to give you more opportunity to mischaracterize my comments into I'd prefer Meszaros playing over Grossmann, when it's actually I'd just like to see subpar and stupid play by similar players held accountable.

Other than that, no real reason to discuss him
- Jsaquella

im with you on the accountability component. i dont think the flyers or the penguins really instill that enough in their players. i dont care if you are malkin, giroux, or tye mcginn or robert bortuzzo. if you do something stupid, lazy, or selfish, youre missing a couple shifts. but thats lacking from both of these teams

In all seriousness, I think Grossmann's had 3 pretty solid games in a row. Maybe not based upon regular or magic stats, but just from my own obersvation.

i know they basically breed defensemen down there, but i really think josi is pretty damn good, and only going to become even better. i think he could be a top pairing dman on his own team, and drastically make the flyers better as early as next year while being young enough to grow with the core and become a part of the foundation. since im done female doging momentarily about school, shall i play poile? initial offer?
- stayinthefnnet

Brayden Schenn

Lenny Dykstra and Kyle Korver
- jmatchett383

haha i miss when you cared to contribute relevant remarks at least 35 percent of the time

Mez gets benched because he's a 6/7 defenseman. Schenn got benched because the coach didn't like his effort. Why bench Grossmann if he is one of the best 6 defenseman? It's not like he has a bad attitude.

your argument is that Grossmann isn't a very good defenseman. My argument is that he's having a bad year on a team without very many good defenseman.
- PhillySportsGuy

My argument is that Grossmann is a 5/6th defenseman, like Meszaros has been his entire career and that both are having bad years, yet one gets benched and the other doesn't.

It also ignores the times thet Luke Schenn and Erik Gustafsson, two younger players that need the ice time to develop, get sat instead of Grossmann.

haha i miss when you cared to contribute relevant remarks at least 35 percent of the time
- stayinthefnnet

Are you telling me that Lenny Dykstra is not relevant to everything and anything?

In all seriousness, I think Grossmann's had 3 pretty solid games in a row. Maybe not based upon regular or magic stats, but just from my own obersvation.
- jmatchett383

I concur. That Kings game was right in his wheelhouse. Lots of grind it out, physical play.

In all seriousness, I think Grossmann's had 3 pretty solid games in a row. Maybe not based upon regular or magic stats, but just from my own obersvation.
- jmatchett383

He has been pretty solid since the Boston game. He looked very solid against Detroit.

In all seriousness, I think Grossmann's had 3 pretty solid games in a row. Maybe not based upon regular or magic stats, but just from my own obersvation.
- jmatchett383

Unless you've watched ALL the game tape AND Bill agrees with you in a blog he hasn't written yet, then YOUAREWRONG.

Brayden Schenn
- PhillySportsGuy

as much as i hate taking the initial offer, i think that seems pretty fair. both definitely help a position of weakness from strength. are young, and having breakout-ish years. i realize you can never have enough dmen, but they do still have weber and jones, and as usual lack any gamebreaking forwards. so yeah, i like that.

My argument is that Grossmann is a 5/6th defenseman, like Meszaros has been his entire career and that both are having bad years, yet one gets benched and the other doesn't.

It also ignores the times thet Luke Schenn and Erik Gustafsson, two younger players that need the ice time to develop, get sat instead of Grossmann.
- Jsaquella

I would much rather play Gus than Mez. Schenn sat for a reason. It wasn't like they sat him because they thought they had a better chance to win without him. It was for long term.

Are you telling me that Lenny Dykstra is not relevant to everything and anything?
- jmatchett383

fair enough

im with you on the accountability component. i dont think the flyers or the penguins really instill that enough in their players. i dont care if you are malkin, giroux, or tye mcginn or robert bortuzzo. if you do something stupid, lazy, or selfish, youre missing a couple shifts. but thats lacking from both of these teams
- stayinthefnnet

True and real accountability comes from players and teammates. Not Coaches.

as much as i hate taking the initial offer, i think that seems pretty fair. both definitely help a position of weakness from strength. are young, and having breakout-ish years. i realize you can never have enough dmen, but they do still have weber and jones, and as usual lack any gamebreaking forwards. so yeah, i like that.
- stayinthefnnet

Fine. But I want a written letter forgiving me for the Weber offer sheet as well.

Unless you've watched ALL the game tape AND Bill agrees with you in a blog he hasn't written yet, then YOUAREWRONG.
- Tomahawk

im with you on the accountability component. i dont think the flyers or the penguins really instill that enough in their players. i dont care if you are malkin, giroux, or tye mcginn or robert bortuzzo. if you do something stupid, lazy, or selfish, youre missing a couple shifts. but thats lacking from both of these teams
- stayinthefnnet

It's a bit different if you're dealing with a Giroux or Malkin. Obviously you're not going to bench them for a game, but certainly for a period here and there if they don;t play well or hard.

And I'm not even advocating a long term benching of Grossmann. Maybe a game or two when he had an obviously bad game, like they have done with Schenn, Gustafsson and Meszaros. It's not as if Grossmann is so much better than those players.

I would much rather play Gus than Mez. Schenn sat for a reason. It wasn't like they sat him because they thought they had a better chance to win without him. It was for long term.
- PhillySportsGuy

So would I. Somehow you kept accusing me of wanting to play Meszaros.

He has been pretty solid since the Boston game. He looked very solid against Detroit.
- Jsaquella

I know it's a small (very small) sample size, but I'm hoping he was just in a bad funk and is coming out of it. Only time will tell, but I hope he settles down and becomes Mr. 16 minutes of boring, unspectacular hockey.

To me, he is what he is. A slow, physical, next-to-nothing offensive defenseman who, when not paired with an adequate puck mover and/or forwards who cheat, ends up making questionable to terrible decisions with the puck. And that's just how he is, and that's okay as long as he plays shutdown defense and uses his size/strength. It's when he doesn't make good reads defensively that he really gets hurt. And for the past month+, prior to the Detroit game, that was the case. I hope and think he's coming out of that, and will be a serviceable 4/5/6 defenseman for the rest of the year.

I'll be happy to continue to discuss any factor if Grossmann's game in depth. But not interested in continuing along the course that the conversation has taken because a dissenting opinion has been given.
- MJL

Why do you think it is that when Streit is on the ice with Mason 5 on 5, the Flyers have a positive GF20 differential of 0.125, but when Grossmann and Mason are on the ice 5 on 5 the Flyers concede 0.282 more goals than they score for ever 20 minutes of ice time?

Or to put it more simply, why does Streit GF% go up from 40.5% when he plays with Grossmann to 60.6% playing with any other defenseman, but Grossmann's GF% falls all the way down to 30.8% when he plays apart from Streit?

It's a bit different if you're dealing with a Giroux or Malkin. Obviously you're not going to bench them for a game, but certainly for a period here and there if they don;t play well or hard.

And I'm not even advocating a long term benching of Grossmann. Maybe a game or two when he had an obviously bad game, like they have done with Schenn, Gustafsson and Meszaros. It's not as if Grossmann is so much better than those players.
- Jsaquella

I can get on board with benching Grossmann if he has a bad few games AND you think there is a better option. However, if the option is Mez, I'm leaving Grossmann in and hoping he works through it.

It's a bit different if you're dealing with a Giroux or Malkin. Obviously you're not going to bench them for a game, but certainly for a period here and there if they don;t play well or hard.

And I'm not even advocating a long term benching of Grossmann. Maybe a game or two when he had an obviously bad game, like they have done with Schenn, Gustafsson and Meszaros. It's not as if Grossmann is so much better than those players.
- Jsaquella

it is, but i think we are in agreement that yeah you cant cut off your nose to spite your face and bench your star for a whole game. and they know that. but ill be damned if its the first period of say game 50 and you absolutely laugh in the face of the idea of backchecking if youre giroux, or just straight hook someone to the ground like a petulant child because someone took the puck from you if youre malkin, that you shouldnt miss at least 3 or 4 shifts. just something.

but i dont understand what you guys are doing with your defensemen. if you think you guys dont have the pressure to make an outside move yet because you want to see what you have in someone like gus, then you need to play him.

So would I. Somehow you kept accusing me of wanting to play Meszaros.
- Jsaquella

Well if you play Gus, it's either Mez or Grossmann.

Why do you think it is that when Streit is on the ice with Mason 5 on 5, the Flyers have a positive GF20 differential of 0.125, but when Grossmann and Mason are on the ice 5 on 5 the Flyers concede 0.282 more goals than they score for ever 20 minutes of ice time?
- Feanor

Because Grossmann banged Mason's wife???

Well if you play Gus, it's either Mez or Grossmann.
- PhillySportsGuy

Hello! Hal Gill...