That is why stats like WOWY exist. That simply measures what a player does when on the ice with a particular player and when on the ice without a particular player.

That's how I can look at what the team's Corsi & Fenwick scores are with Grossmann on the ice and when he's not on the ice and see that they're worse with him.

Other factors come into play, too, like score differential and situation play.
- Jsaquella

Can't they come up with better names for these stats?

That is why stats like WOWY exist. That simply measures what a player does when on the ice with a particular player and when on the ice without a particular player.

That's how I can look at what the team's Corsi & Fenwick scores are with Grossmann on the ice and when he's not on the ice and see that they're worse with him.

Other factors come into play, too, like score differential and situation play.
- Jsaquella

But can they account for the other 5 players on the ice, the other 6 players on the other team, the score of the game, length of shift all at once?

Funny how all the naysayers in the main Diaz trade thread on HB are saying, he was soft, worthless, not great on the breakout first pass. Is our D that bad that he looks good or are they just female dogging about it ??
- Steelmanpa

Our D is just that bad.

Funny how all the naysayers in the main Diaz trade thread on HB are saying, he was soft, worthless, not great on the breakout first pass. Is our D that bad that he looks good or are they just female dogging about it ??
- Steelmanpa

He is what he is, a #6 defenseman. Our D doesn't have enough of his skillset, so he may have been a good fit (at the moment) for us.

I just dont see a plethoria of options.
- youarewrong

There's a lot of them, but you have to either be willing to pay the price or trade for a guy with flaws or who needs to develop.

Phoenix has a kid like Rundblad, sitting on the bench because they have Yandle and OEL and Stone. A guy like Byfuglien who is unhappy and not an especially good all around player could be had, if the team decides to make a move.

There's options, the key is picking a good one

Our D is just that bad.
- Tomahawk

I think some people see another team trade for a dman and suddenly it equals homer missing out.

Jesus 20 pages already??

There's a lot of them, but you have to either be willing to pay the price or trade for a guy with flaws or who needs to develop.

Phoenix has a kid like Rundblad, sitting on the bench because they have Yandle and OEL and Stone. A guy like Byfuglien who is unhappy and not an especially good all around player could be had, if the team decides to make a move.

There's options, the key is picking a good one
- Jsaquella

Why do we need more not especially well rounded defensmen?

I think some people see another team trade for a dman and suddenly it equals homer missing out.
- funmaster18

Don't get me wrong, he did miss out. A right-shot PP/o-zone specialist rental for nothing more than Dale Weise is a friggin steal.

But he's not Keith Yandle or Matt Carle -- not a great possession player, average on breakouts, not great defensively... a veritable right-handed Mark Streit. (albeit younger, faster, and cheaper)

There's a lot of them, but you have to either be willing to pay the price or trade for a guy with flaws or who needs to develop.

Phoenix has a kid like Rundblad, sitting on the bench because they have Yandle and OEL and Stone. A guy like Byfuglien who is unhappy and not an especially good all around player could be had, if the team decides to make a move.

There's options, the key is picking a good one
- Jsaquella

I'd take a shot at Rundblad, but I wouldn't move a guy like B Schenn for him. Schenn seems to finally be finding his game, and Rundblad, while having a high potential, has yet to show what he can do in the NHL.

But can they account for the other 5 players on the ice, the other 6 players on the other team, the score of the game, length of shift all at once?
- jmatchett383

It takes digging, but yes, it's possible. There's stats that measure quality of team mate, quality of competition, zone starts, zone exit and entry, pretty much everything.

As Tomahawk noted there's nothing 100% definitie, until you get 12 guys with stopwatches, but that's why I look at trends and base my view on a player on more than just Corsi or Fenwick. I also try to watch highlights of a player if possible.

Don't get me wrong, he did miss out. A right-shot PP/o-zone specialist rental for nothing more than Dale Weise is a friggin steal.

But he's not Keith Yandle or Matt Carle -- not a great possession player, average on breakouts, not great defensively... a veritable right-handed Mark Streit. (albeit younger, faster, and cheaper)
- Tomahawk

Exactly. He won't turn us into a contender, but he may be able to help the team in the short term. And for a guy like Weise (I find it hard to imagine we couldn't have beat that), it's a nice pick up.

There's a lot of them, but you have to either be willing to pay the price or trade for a guy with flaws or who needs to develop.

Phoenix has a kid like Rundblad, sitting on the bench because they have Yandle and OEL and Stone. A guy like Byfuglien who is unhappy and not an especially good all around player could be had, if the team decides to make a move.

There's options, the key is picking a good one
- Jsaquella

Yes please.

Kid's not a great skater, but he can flat out pass the puck and run a PP... and he's a righttttyyy. Two-way game is coming along nicely, apparently.

Why do we need more not especially well rounded defensmen?
- funmaster18

IMO, they need more mobility and puck moving ability. Ideally you find a guy that can bring that and a solid two way game. But that's very expensive to acquire.

So I look at other options that won't cost Schenn AND Simmonds to land.

There's a lot of them, but you have to either be willing to pay the price or trade for a guy with flaws or who needs to develop.

Phoenix has a kid like Rundblad, sitting on the bench because they have Yandle and OEL and Stone. A guy like Byfuglien who is unhappy and not an especially good all around player could be had, if the team decides to make a move.

There's options, the key is picking a good one
- Jsaquella

I was talking about free options.

I'd take a shot at Rundblad, but I wouldn't move a guy like B Schenn for him. Schenn seems to finally be finding his game, and Rundblad, while having a high potential, has yet to show what he can do in the NHL.
- jmatchett383

Exactly. Would they move him for Laughton? If Rundbald was waiver exmpt, he'd be in the AHL with Gormley

It takes digging, but yes, it's possible. There's stats that measure quality of team mate, quality of competition, zone starts, zone exit and entry, pretty much everything.

As Tomahawk noted there's nothing 100% definitie, until you get 12 guys with stopwatches, but that's why I look at trends and base my view on a player on more than just Corsi or Fenwick. I also try to watch highlights of a player if possible.
- Jsaquella

I base my view on a player solely on watching him. And I think you'll agree that I've been fairly unbiased in my assessment of him. I just don't see many better options with their current mix.

I was talking about free options.
- youarewrong

Free options are limited, at best

I base my view on a player solely on watching him. And I think you'll agree that I've been fairly unbiased in my assessment of him. I just don't see many better options with their current mix.
- jmatchett383

That's fine and I can respectfully disagree, at least to a point.

I'm not saying he should be exiled to Siberia. Just that he shouldn;t be immune from an occasional healthy scratch

Don't get me wrong, he did miss out. A right-shot PP/o-zone specialist rental for nothing more than Dale Weise is a friggin steal.

But he's not Keith Yandle or Matt Carle -- not a great possession player, average on breakouts, not great defensively... a veritable right-handed Mark Streit. (albeit younger, faster, and cheaper)
- Tomahawk

It likely means that he has a deal in the works for someone else... someone more impactful. I'm guessing its Buff. They might add Hainsey too if Coburn is being moved in a deal for Buff.

Timonen is out tonight, per Carchidi

Exactly. Would they move him for Laughton? If Rundbald was waiver exmpt, he'd be in the AHL with Gormley
- Jsaquella

For Laughton, I'd have to consider it. How many Laughton's make up a Richards? I'm thinking Laughton is equal to 0.68 Richards'. Rundblad is probably somewhere around 0.32 Karlsson's. I don't know the exchange rate from Karlsson's to Richards' though.

Timonen is out tonight, per Carchidi
- Jsaquella

Streit-Grossmann
Gustafsson-Coburn
Schenn-Pronger

Maybe?

It likely means that he has a deal in the works for someone else... someone more impactful. I'm guessing its Buff. They might add Hainsey too if Coburn is being moved in a deal for Buff.
- youarewrong

You and your Buff/Yakupov/Rundblad jerk fest again...

What do you think that price is?
- jmatchett383

I think they would want B. Schenn or at least Laughton.