No way. This team should not be trading first round picks for rentals.
- Feanor

Definitely agree.

Everyone of your posts regarding what the advanced stats mean, and the interpretation of them is your opinion. When you look at why the numbers are why they are, is when you really get down to it. And you can spin those numbers to mean anything you want them to mean, it's all just opinion. When other players play with Grossmann, they aren't just playing with Grossmann. They're also playing with Mark Streit on most occasions as they play together a lot. They're also playing with any number of combinations of forwards. And when Mark Striet isn't playing with Grossmann and his possession numbers get better, you have to look at why they do.
- MJL

They get better because Grossmann is the worst passer and puckhandler in the top 7. He's not a bad guy, he just has bad hands.

He wants to play for a contender, and reports say he already knows he will be taking a pay cut.
- Winning

I also heard he is only willing to sign with Minnesota.. who knows how true any of it is.

Isn't it pretty much a certainty that he's going to Minnesota this summer?
- johndewar

Why Minnesota

I want to see Giroux full potential. Get him an elite sniper now

He wants to play for a contender, and reports say he already knows he will be taking a pay cut.
- Winning

Lol, well there goes the Flyers' chances.

No way. This team should not be trading first round picks for rentals.
- Feanor

Plus that first round pick has Bob Ryab written all over it.

They get better because Grossmann is the worst passer and puckhandler in the top 7. He's not a bad guy, he just has bad hands.
- Feanor

That's the only possible reason why they get better? What are the scenarios where Streit would be seprated from Grossmann at 5 on 5 play?

I hate Tyler Kennedy, he always scores on us.
- GOA88

He'll have a big night

I want to see Giroux full potential. Get him an elite sniper now
- Winning

i fall prey to that mentality with crosby all the time. but you guys giving up what would be necessary to get vanek, and then having to shell out the necessary deal to retain him, or have him leave via free agency, just seems like a horrible use of assets/cap for an area that doesnt seem to be crying out for fixing.

Why Minnesota
- PhillySportsGuy

Pominville (buddy, ex-linemate), went to college there, has home there... think wife is from there, too?

i fall prey to that mentality with crosby all the time. but you guys giving up what would be necessary to get vanek, and then having to shell out the necessary deal to retain him, or have him leave via free agency, just seems like a horrible use of assets/cap for an area that doesnt seem to be crying out for fixing.
- stayinthefnnet

I agree, the Flyers should focus their assets on improving the mix of the defense.

Everyone of your posts regarding what the advanced stats mean, and the interpretation of them is your opinion. When you look at why the numbers are why they are, is when you really get down to it. And you can spin those numbers to mean anything you want them to mean, it's all just opinion. When other players play with Grossmann, they aren't just playing with Grossmann. They're also playing with Mark Streit on most occasions as they play together a lot. They're also playing with any number of combinations of forwards. And when Mark Striet isn't playing with Grossmann and his possession numbers get better, you have to look at why they do. That's where the analysis and context comes in. And that's where the opinion is. I disagree with the analysis you've offered on Grossmann. And I've offered to look at game highlights and use the so called "eyeball" test. And when I get some time later tonight, I'm going to put together a post complete with links of numerous plays where a goal is scored with Grossmann on the ice, that illustrates the situations that Grossmann has been faced with this Season.
- MJL

No, you are incorrect. I am stating exactly what those statistics mean. There's no interpretation. No way to read them differently.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/glossary.php

I'm using the most basic of stats, ones that simply measure shot attempts for and against. and when Grossmann is on the ice, the Flyers face 2.5 shot attempts against for every one they take. Not voodoo, no interpretation. Just your unwillingness to accept a very simple and black and white stat at face value because it fails to meet YOUR opinion.

The other measurement is CF%, which is simply a measure that matches Corsi for & Corsi against to get a simple ratio of shots for and against. In that regard, every single member of the 2013-14 Philadelphia Flyers who was on ice at the same time as Grossmann when a shot was attempted had a worse CF% than they did when they were on the ice with anybody else not named Nick Grossmann.

Again, there's nothing to interpret. It's a black and white number, based on data accumulated over 50+ NHL games. You see, when you do an experiment or analysis, you use a control and test group.

In this case, Grossmann is in the "control" group, because his presence is the constant. The "test" group is everyone else. The simple fact-again, not intrepretation-is that every player on the entire team has a better CF% when they are on the ice with out Nick Grossmann. That includes Mark Streit.

So again, there's zero interpretation. None, zilch, nada. It's two simple sets of stats that paint a really bad picture for Grossmann.

Have fun on the video collage.

i fall prey to that mentality with crosby all the time. but you guys giving up what would be necessary to get vanek, and then having to shell out the necessary deal to retain him, or have him leave via free agency, just seems like a horrible use of assets/cap for an area that doesnt seem to be crying out for fixing.
- stayinthefnnet

Thats the logical point of view, but, like, MORE GOALS!

Pominville (buddy, ex-linemate), went to college there, has home there... think wife is from there, too?
- Tomahawk

Pominville (buddy, ex-linemate), went to college there, has home there... think wife is from there, too?
- Tomahawk

Only in the NHL, do players pine to go to Minnesota.

I agree, the Flyers should focus their assets on improving the mix of the defense.
- MJL

i just look at it this way. not to be a Richard, but the idea of you guys acquiring vanek makes me happy. the thought of you guys going out and getting a guy like roman josi doesnt.

i fall prey to that mentality with crosby all the time. but you guys giving up what would be necessary to get vanek, and then having to shell out the necessary deal to retain him, or have him leave via free agency, just seems like a horrible use of assets/cap for an area that doesnt seem to be crying out for fixing.
- stayinthefnnet

i would want him to agree too resigning

No, you are incorrect. I am stating exactly what those statistics mean. There's no interpretation. No way to read them differently.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/glossary.php

I'm using the most basic of stats, ones that simply measure shot attempts for and against. and when Grossmann is on the ice, the Flyers face 2.5 shot attempts against for every one they take. Not voodoo, no interpretation. Just your unwillingness to accept a very simple and black and white stat at face value because it fails to meet YOUR opinion.

The other measurement is CF%, which is simply a measure that matches Corsi for & Corsi against to get a simple ratio of shots for and against. In that regard, every single member of the 2013-14 Philadelphia Flyers who was on ice at the same time as Grossmann when a shot was attempted had a worse CF% than they did when they were on the ice with anybody else not named Nick Grossmann.

Again, there's nothing to interpret. It's a black and white number, based on data accumulated over 50+ NHL games. You see, when you do an experiment or analysis, you use a control and test group.

In this case, Grossmann is in the "control" group, because his presence is the constant. The "test" group is everyone else. The simple fact-again, not intrepretation-is that every player on the entire team has a better CF% when they are on the ice with out Nick Grossmann. That includes Mark Streit.

So again, there's zero interpretation. None, zilch, nada. It's two simple sets of stats that paint a really bad picture for Grossmann.

Have fun on the video collage.
- Jsaquella

So I watched nearly 60 goals for no (frank)ing reason?

Thats the logical point of view, but, like, MORE GOALS!
- PhillySportsGuy

its hard not to imagine the allure though. the pens third line is made up of brandon sutter, a snowman, and a pile of paperclips, but its hard not to want a winger for crosby.

he is currently being flanked by brian gibbons. yeah...

i would want him to agree too resigning
- Winning

$8M a year for 7 years for Vanek is less than appetizing, to me.

No, you are incorrect. I am stating exactly what those statistics mean. There's no interpretation. No way to read them differently.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/glossary.php

I'm using the most basic of stats, ones that simply measure shot attempts for and against. and when Grossmann is on the ice, the Flyers face 2.5 shot attempts against as they take. Not voodoo, no interpretation. Just your unwillingness to accept a very simple and black and white stat at face value because it fails to meet YOUR opinion.

The other measurement is CF%, which is simply a measure that matches Corsi for & Corsi against to get a simple ratio of shots for and against. In that regard, every single member of the 2013-14 Philadelphia Flyers who was on ice at the same time as Grossmann when a shot was attempted had a worse CF% than they did when they were on the ice with anybody else not named Nick Grossmann.

Again, there's nothing to interpret. It's a black and white number, based on data accumulated over 50+ NHL games. You see, when you do an experiment or analysis, you use a control and test group.

In this case, Grossmann is in the "control" group, because his presence is the constant. The "test" group is everyone else. The simple fact-again, not intrepretation-is that every player on the entire team has a better CF% when they are on the ice with out Nick Grossmann. That includes Mark Streit.

So again, there's zero interpretation. None, zilch, nada. It's two simple sets of stats that paint a really bad picture for Grossmann.

Have fun on the video collage.
- Jsaquella

I must say you two have tremendous stamina to continue this argument for this long. It's almost like MJL is making up for lost time.

its hard not to imagine the allure though. the pens third line is made up of brandon sutter, a snowman, and a pile of paperclips, but its hard not to want a winger for crosby.

he is currently being flanked by brian gibbons. yeah...
- stayinthefnnet

Wasn't Gibbons doing quite a good job in WBS?

i just look at it this way. not to be a Richard, but the idea of you guys acquiring vanek makes me happy. the thought of you guys going out and getting a guy like roman josi doesnt.
- stayinthefnnet

Roman Josi is a hell of a player.. Nashville has a stock pile of great young d-men, but are to stubborn to dangle them for offensive help.

Imagine what they could have got for Suter.

i would want him to agree too resigning
- Winning

well if youve heard rumors about a supposed paycut that he would be willing to take, then i will admit that does change it a bit. if you can have it assured that youre going to ink him for a really good deal, then it may be worth looking into. but i cant see him signing like a 4 year, 18 million dollar deal.