Four words:

Nicklas Grossmann. Advanced stats.
- AllInForFlyers

all 28 pages?
blech
I'm not going to read that

any talk about the Diaz trade?

don't the Flyers have a Weiss type they could have traded for him?
(or is he too much like Eric Gustafsson and we don't need him)

I've followed all 28 pages today. I feel fortunate that my brain hasn't exploded

And I say that in the regard that, as someone who believes Nicklas Grossmann has not played well, it is pretty much beyond my comprehension how the Flyers could currently be out of a playoff spot, after missing the playoffs last year, with metrics across the board that scream average, and yet, one guy with sincere limitations is afforded the mantle of "it's not him, it's everybody else."

It is beyond my comprehension how Nicklas Grossmann has ascended to a state where if he's on the ice and a goal is scored, the forwards didn't backcheck or his defensive partner hung him out to dry or he had bad puck luck or he was put in a position to fail

You'd think that Grossmann wasn't traded from Dallas because they found him expendable. Instead, the Stars simply bestowed the missing piece upon the Flyers out of the goodness of their hearts
- AllInForFlyers

it's like a fierce slugfest someone can't see the writing on the wall for Grossman

all 28 pages?
blech
I'm not going to read that

any talk about the Diaz trade?

don't the Flyers have a Weiss type they could have traded for him?
(or is he too much like Eric Gustafsson and we don't need him)
- Marc D

Streit Coburn
Diaz Grossman
Gusty Schenn would have been interesting

Aren't you making their point? You can't say they're not worse because Grossman and whomever he is partnered with (and I believe these stats say pairing is agnostic) as a pair are bad and then say but they are better because Timmo and Coby are better. The mind boggles.
- bodiva88

Umm…can we please keep this thread about hockey.

She looks pretty hot in Game of Thrones.
- Tomahawk

Ah, Shea the funny whore .....just wait until this season

Umm…can we please keep this thread about hockey.
- PhillySportsGuy

right next to this post is an add saying Christ is Lord and shilling for some Christian single web thing

seems ironic

all 28 pages?
blech
I'm not going to read that

any talk about the Diaz trade?

don't the Flyers have a Weiss type they could have traded for him?
(or is he too much like Eric Gustafsson and we don't need him)
- Marc D

Too much like Gustafsson. The Flyers have about 6 guys they could have traded that would have been better returns for the Habs

I say if Grossman has a bad game tonight, that Berube forces him to read the whole thread which will no doubt get to 1000+ posts after the game is done

If his english reading skills are good, his head will explode & he will end up on IR in a mental institution

Grossmann debate continues for another day eh?....
- five4fighting10

It will never die

Too much like Gustafsson. The Flyers have about 6 guys they could have traded that would have been better returns for the Habs
- Jsaquella

Yeah but no teams want to trade with the Flyers. Most certainly not a Canadian team. Ever since Clarke offer-sheeted Kesler and Holmgren with Weber along with his continued page headline type moves - it's my opinion the Flyers are kind of franked moving forward on any trades. The NHL doesn't trust the Flyers.

Yeah but no teams want to trade with the Flyers. Most certainly not a Canadian team. Ever since Clarke offer-sheeted Kesler and Holmgren with Weber along his continued page headline type moves - it's my opinion the Flyers are kind of franked moving forward on any trades. The NHL doesn't trust the Flyers.
- Pixote Andolini

Considering they traded JvR for Luke Schenn, I'd call them every half hour...I seriously doubt they had a shred of interest in Diaz.

Yeah but no teams want to trade with the Flyers. Most certainly not a Canadian team. Ever since Clarke offer-sheeted Kesler and Holmgren with Weber along with his continued page headline type moves - it's my opinion the Flyers are kind of franked moving forward on any trades. The NHL doesn't trust the Flyers.
- Pixote Andolini

I find that hard to believe. Flyers traded with Leafs a couple of times over the last few years.

Aren't you making their point? You can't say they're not worse because Grossman and whomever he is partnered with (and I believe these stats say pairing is agnostic) as a pair are bad and then say but they are better because Timmo and Coby are better. The mind boggles.
- bodiva88

I think the point is missed here and maybe you haven't had a chance to read my other posts on the subject. But my entire point is that you can't look at the numbers and come away with it saying definitively that Grossmann has played poorly. And that the statistics in question have to interpreted and looked at in the proper context. And am simply giving an alternative explanation of why the numbers might better when a player is moved away from Grossmann. In no way was the example offered as a fact, but only as an example. And using the phrase "could it be" to offer the alternative explanation, points out that it's being offered in that manner. The point that is being debated is not what situation is worse or better, but rather do the numbers back up that Grossmann has played poorly this Season overall.

Also really?
29 pages guys?

Just squash it and move the frank on.







For franks sake.

Also really?
29 pages guys?

Just squash it and move the frank on.







For franks sake.
- Pixote Andolini

Not since Shelley have we seen such a polarizing pillar of the franchise create such debate.

Also really?
29 pages guys?

Just squash it and move the frank on.







For franks sake.
- Pixote Andolini

This argument has gone on so long that I was a part of it this morning.

all 28 pages?
blech
I'm not going to read that

any talk about the Diaz trade?

don't the Flyers have a Weiss type they could have traded for him?
(or is he too much like Eric Gustafsson and we don't need him)
- Marc D

Yeah, some -- Diaz was the trigger

right next to this post is an add saying Christ is Lord and shilling for some Christian single web thing

seems ironic
- Marc D

HB uses services that key your ads to your browsing history. I'm SHOCKED you're looking for a date.

He tracks and assigns values to on-ice events, from things as mundane as goals/hits/fights, to things as strange as assists on attempted shots.
- Tomahawk

Exactly. So how is that different and how does it reinforce anything that is being used to criticize Grossmann. It doesn't in my opinion.

Some hard headed people around here.

I think the point is missed here and maybe you haven't had a chance to read my other posts on the subject. But my entire point is that you can't look at the numbers and come away with it saying definitively that Grossmann has played poorly. And that the statistics in question have to interpreted and looked at in the proper context. And am simply giving an alternative explanation of why the numbers might better when a player is moved away from Grossmann. In no way was the example offered as a fact, but only as an example. And using the phrase "could it be" to offer the alternative explanation, points out that it's being offered in that manner.
- MJL

HB uses services that key your ads to your browsing history. I'm SHOCKED you're looking for a date.
- bodiva88

So does he that shall not be named just see Hockeybuzz ads?

grossmann is definitely in a no win position. he is going to be placed in situations in which you cant really win, its only a matter of how little you lose as to how good you are actually performing. its just the nature of a stay at home, bottom pairing defender. he really shouldnt have gleaming stats.

im definitely a fan of his, but if im giving my honest opinion he has had a rough go over the course of the past month, just from watching him play. but then again, he doesnt really have much room for error. if he makes a mistake, its in the back of the net. its not as if his partner will bail him out. and if the forwards arent helping him get to a loose puck, he certainly isnt going to win a footrace to it, even on his best day. especially when hes out there against good opposition.
- stayinthefnnet

I agree with all of that. I think Grossman has had a rough stretch in January, and he deserves criticism for that. But overall this Season, he's been solid. He's been far more of a victim then a perp.

Some hard headed people around here.
- ob18

Just wait, Bill's gonna blog about it

From Todd Cordell

@ToddCordell: Dreger says Callahan wants a 7-year deal worth over $6.5M per.


No wonder the Rangers wanna trade him