None of these guys are available. I would rather talk about guys that are. Has Bill given his opinion on what the Flyers would have to give up to get Daley?
- youarewrong

Any player is available given the right offer. You really want to overpay for a rental player?

Well my eyes tell me that he's been solid all season except for a horrific month of January. That's what the +/- says as well.

I know he's not great at leaving the zone, but, with the exception of one month, he's good without the puck. I just don't see how playing Mez, Gus and Streit will help this team defensively. They aren't very good at winning puck battles and their positioning is lacking.
- PhillySportsGuy

My eyes tell me he hasn't been. He's made numerous mistakes with the puck and had more blown coverages this year than I can remember in the past. That's my big issue, he's a physical defenseman, not necessarily a good defensive player. Being one doesn't automatically mean the other is true

There's a difference. Again, plus-minus is flawed here. the other stats that look more deeply into the game are more telling and useful. Maybe it's more than a coincidence that his +/- dipped badly during the time that Mason's save % dropped from around .930 to .915?

Any player is available given the right offer. You really want to overpay for a rental player?
- PhillySportsGuy

Every player but Jason "Hart Ross" Akeson, you mean.

Also, everything mentioned today so far has everything with Giroux's unwillingness to backcheck effectively on every single play this season.

My eyes tell me he hasn't been. He's made numerous mistakes with the puck and had more blown coverages this year than I can remember in the past. That's my big issue, he's a physical defenseman, not necessarily a good defensive player. Being one doesn't automatically mean the other is true

There's a difference. Again, plus-minus is flawed here. the other stats that look more deeply into the game are more telling and useful. Maybe it's more than a coincidence that his +/- dipped badly during the time that Mason's save % dropped from around .930 to .915?
- Jsaquella

Unfortunately, the league doesn't seem to track icings as a stat. But I would bet $10 that Grossmann leads the Flyers in icings taken this season.

Every player but Jason "Hart Ross" Akeson, you mean.
- jmatchett383

I like how you're adding awards to his nickname. I look forward to your incorporation of the Vezina into his name.

My eyes tell me he hasn't been. He's made numerous mistakes with the puck and had more blown coverages this year than I can remember in the past. That's my big issue, he's a physical defenseman, not necessarily a good defensive player. Being one doesn't automatically mean the other is true

There's a difference. Again, plus-minus is flawed here. the other stats that look more deeply into the game are more telling and useful. Maybe it's more than a coincidence that his +/- dipped badly during the time that Mason's save % dropped from around .930 to .915?
- Jsaquella

Look, we can't use the numbers without the ability to compare them to another year. If he had the same numbers as last year, I would be concerned. The difference between us is that I'd like to see Grossmann work through his struggles, which he has done lately, and you'd like to see him benched in favor of Mez.

You've made that so clear
- PhillySportsGuy

Sorry if you can't tell the difference between valid criticisms and concerns and dislike.

I like how you're adding awards to his nickname. I look forward to your incorporation of the Vezina into his name.
- PhillySportsGuy

He's gotta work on his stick side to win the Vezina. But he's probably got the Norris and Selke locked up too.

He's gotta work on his stick side to win the Vezina. But he's probably got the Norris and Selke locked up too.
- jmatchett383

Those are usually difficult awards to win in the same year. I wouldn't put it past him though

Sorry if you can't tell the difference between valid criticisms and concerns and dislike.
- Jsaquella

Maybe he'll get a cold and we'll be given the opportunity to see the great Mez in action again.

Those are usually difficult awards to win in the same year. I wouldn't put it past him though
- PhillySportsGuy

Difficult? Jason Akeson laughs at the difficulty encountered by mere mortals. The only thing difficult for Jason Akeson is figuring out if Martin Brodeur's kids call him daddy or Uncle Marty.

Difficult? Jason Akeson laughs at the difficulty encountered by mere mortals. The only thing difficult for Jason Akeson is figuring out if Martin Brodeur's kids call him daddy or Uncle Marty.
- jmatchett383

Awkward thanksgiving dinners

Grossmann -- who has apparently become the designated "this is the guy we need to get rid of" whipping boy when he is actually a solid NHL defenseman who performs a valuable role for the team -- is the type of D man that teams need in the playoffs.

It would be nice if the Flyers could get Hainsey but I would only offer Meszaros --- UFA rental for UFA rental -- as the player going the other way.
- bmeltzer

He's ideally a bottom-pair guy on a deep playoff team, or somebody you'd pair with a terrific puck-mover who can mitigate a lot of his weaknesses. Flyers corps, as currently constituted, aren't able to slot him that way.

Bill, we all have our favorites, and players we have a soft spot for, but you can't really tell me that there isn't some redundancy in the Flyers depth chart and pipeline when it comes to big, stay-at-home types -- Schenn, Gill, Morin, Alt, Lauridsen.

If there's even the possibility of moving Grossmann and the remaining $8M+ of his contract out, and getting a decent top-four puck-mover in return, it would seem like folly not to do so.

Difficult? Jason Akeson laughs at the difficulty encountered by mere mortals. The only thing difficult for Jason Akeson is figuring out if Martin Brodeur's kids call him daddy or Uncle Marty.
- jmatchett383

Look, we can't use the numbers without the ability to compare them to another year. If he had the same numbers as last year, I would be concerned. The difference between us is that I'd like to see Grossmann work through his struggles, which he has done lately, and you'd like to see him benched in favor of Mez.
- PhillySportsGuy

His Corsi, Fenwick and other stats are similar to last season. The WOWY data is, unfortunately not readily available.

The difference between us is, I'd like to see Grossmann held accountable to the standards that the other players are held. If Meszaros has a bad game or two, he gets scratched. When Grossmann does, he continues to play.

Regardless of whether or not one "deserves" a chance to play out of their issues, holding some guys accountable and other guys get a free reign is not a good way to instill discipline and get everyone to play better.

He's ideally a bottom-pair guy on a deep playoff team, or somebody you'd pair with a terrific puck-mover who can mitigate a lot of his weaknesses. Flyers corps, as currently constituted, aren't able to slot him that way.

Bill, we all have our favorites, and players we have a soft spot for, but you can't really tell me that there isn't some redundancy in the Flyers depth chart and pipeline when it comes to big, stay-at-home types -- Schenn, Gill, Morin, Alt, Lauridsen.
- Tomahawk

I think Alt is the best skater out of that group. Grossmann would be great on a Western team team like the Kings that the refs let commit holding and interference all game long.

Difficult? Jason Akeson laughs at the difficulty encountered by mere mortals. The only thing difficult for Jason Akeson is figuring out if Martin Brodeur's kids call him daddy or Uncle Marty.
- jmatchett383

Love the Marty Joke. But actually curious what the answer is...

He's ideally a bottom-pair guy on a deep playoff team, or somebody you'd pair with a terrific puck-mover who can mitigate a lot of his weaknesses. Flyers corps, as currently constituted, aren't able to slot him that way.

Bill, we all have our favorites, and players we have a soft spot for, but you can't really tell me that there isn't some redundancy in the Flyers depth chart and pipeline when it comes to big, stay-at-home types -- Schenn, Gill, Morin, Alt, Lauridsen.

If there's even the possibility of moving Grossmann and the remaining $8+ of his contract out, and getting a decent top-four puck-mover in return, it would seem like folly not to do so.
- Tomahawk

What team is going to give up a top 4 puck mover for Grossmann? No one is arguing that he is some great player. He is what you said he is. Third pairing, defensive defenseman. The argument by most is that he's one of the top 6 defenseman on this roster. The current team is better with him in the lineup.

It would be great to see a young guy come up and take the place of Grossmann for less money, but that just isn't the case yet. Maybe Lauridson gets there next year.

Maybe he'll get a cold and we'll be given the opportunity to see the great Mez in action again.
- PhillySportsGuy

It has nothing to do with Meszaros. It has everything to do with Grossmann not playing well and his level of play being an issue that hurts the team's ability to win games.

His Corsi, Fenwick and other stats are similar to last season. The WOWY data is, unfortunately not readily available.

The difference between us is, I'd like to see Grossmann held accountable to the standards that the other players are held. If Meszaros has a bad game or two, he gets scratched. When Grossmann does, he continues to play.

Regardless of whether or not one "deserves" a chance to play out of their issues, holding some guys accountable and other guys get a free reign is not a good way to instill discipline and get everyone to play better.
- Jsaquella

With the exception of one month, Grossmann is reliable. Mez is totally unreliable. You never know what the hell he's going to do. He's, also, unwilling to be physical.

Coaches prefer having a known commodity. Grossmann has worked up a strong body of work that suggests January was just a bump in the road. Mez has been injured and unreliable this season.

What's up peoples... What's the talk today?

It has nothing to do with Meszaros. It has everything to do with Grossmann not playing well and his level of play being an issue that hurts the team's ability to win games.
- Jsaquella

So who do you want to play instead of him? Gill? Mez? Gervais? Lauridson? Kukkanen?

It has nothing to do with Meszaros. It has everything to do with Grossmann not playing well and his level of play being an issue that hurts the team's ability to win games.
- Jsaquella

Has there been any analysis of Grossmann's numbers with different forward groups on the ice?

I've only seen Grossmann's numbers with other d-men and the numbers are not flattering.

What team is going to give up a top 4 puck mover for Grossmann? No one is arguing that he is some great player. He is what you said he is. Third pairing, defensive defenseman. The argument by most is that he's one of the top 6 defenseman on this roster. The current team is better with him in the lineup.

It would be great to see a young guy come up and take the place of Grossmann for less money, but that just isn't the case yet. Maybe Lauridson gets there next year.
- PhillySportsGuy

I thought the scenario being discussed was Hainsey for Grossmann?

I'm not a huge Hainsey fan, though. If I were Homer, I'd be calling up the Habs and trying to pry Diaz loose before he hits UFA. They need a big SAH dman.