I wonder if their lack of offense has anything to do with having guys like Mitchell, Greene and Regehr in their lineup.
- jak521

I don't think so. They have a good mix with Doughty, Voynov, and Muzzin. And they also add in Martinez.

Meszaros is UFA and Grossmann is not. While Meszaros was playing good offensively he was still having issues defensively. Grossmann, while playing poorly, is still blocking shots. Its the obvious choice IMO when both guys are equal, you keep Grossmann in and bench Meszaros.
- youarewrong

Oh, he blocks shots, so that erases the rest of the trouble spots...great in depth analysis

Except he hasn't been one of their best 6 guys night in and out. He's struggled for 50+ games so far.

When you look at everything, game footage, highlights and analytical measurements, Grossmann hasn't been one of their best 6 guys. He's a limited third pair guy, who has subpar mobility and puck skills on a team that desperately lacks speed and puck moving ability.

He simply hasn't been good and the things that have been reliable is the physicality and shot blocks, along with turnovers and a lot of opposition time in the Flyers end.
- Jsaquella

Well, thats where we differ. We have found the root of our argument. I believe Grossmann is one of our 6 best defenseman. You don't think he is.

Oh, he blocks shots, so that erases the rest of the trouble spots...great in depth analysis
- Jsaquella

Might as well have Mason and Grossmann swap spots -- Grossmann would probably have a legendary 1.000 SV% and Mase could definitely move the puck better, lol.

The AHL won't be a huge step in overall skill, but he will need to matchup against grown men. Thats the aspect he needs to get better at to have a lengthy NHL career.

It's really the perfect transition.

He could end up going the way of JVR and return to college to be the big man on campus.
- PhillySportsGuy

That was my point on him; he needs to learn to play against professional men.

Might as well have Mason and Grossmann swap spots -- Grossmann would probably have a legendary 1.000 SV% and Mase could definitely move the puck better, lol.
- Tomahawk

Yep. When the best thing you can say about a player is that he blocks shots and hits people, it generally means that he's not an especially good player.

Pass it to me... you have had enough.
- jak521

I'm available to discuss any play that has happened this Season and how Grossmann played it. Plenty of video to watch. I recently went back and reviewed every single goal that Grossmann has been on the ice for. Not to often that you come away saying that Grossmann screwed up. That's not to say that he hasn't had bad stretches of games. But overall he's been solid in the situations he's faced.

200 comments already...poop i thought a trade happened

Yep. When the best thing you can say about a player is that he blocks shots and hits people, it generally means that he's not an especially good player.
- Jsaquella

So Ken Daneyko stunk during all of NJ's Cup runs?

200 comments already...poop i thought a trade happened
- PhillaBully

Grossmann happened

200 comments already...poop i thought a trade happened
- PhillaBully

It did. Grossmann for an 8th.

Except he hasn't been one of their best 6 guys night in and out. He's struggled for 50+ games so far.

When you look at everything, game footage, highlights and analytical measurements, Grossmann hasn't been one of their best 6 guys. He's a limited third pair guy, who has subpar mobility and puck skills on a team that desperately lacks speed and puck moving ability.

He simply hasn't been good and the things that have been reliable is the physicality and shot blocks, along with turnovers and a lot of opposition time in the Flyers end.
- Jsaquella

Who are the 6 defenseman that have been better then Grossmann on the Flyers?

Not only that, but Meszy got benched after playing some of his best hockey over the past few seasons. He was a real catalyst out there for a good stretch, had a bad game and heads right back to the press box.
- jak521

he single handedly got them 2 or 3 points and then got benched

Yep. When the best thing you can say about a player is that he blocks shots and hits people, it generally means that he's not an especially good player.
- Jsaquella

I forgot who said it, but an NHL coach recently said in a response to a question that his team didn't register enough hits, that if a team were to play a perfect game of hockey, they would have registered zero hits, because the other team would have never had the puck.

Well Hagg already said he's playing next year in Sweden. I don't think Morin's progressed enough this year to compete. Konan has yet to impress me. I think it's between Alt, Lauridsen, and MAB (if healthy) for spots next year. Unless other trades are made, next year you have:

Streit
Gus
Coburn
Grossmann
Schenn

That leaves 1 starting spot open.
- jmatchett383

I know Hagg is going back and Konan is the dark horse right now... I think if Morin puts on more weight, and really impresses in camp, and also plays well in the tryout games, then he might stick for the year. I actaully give Ghost the better shot. He might not have the AHL time, but he is an older more mature player. Like Matt Read, he came right out of College and played a good defensive game. I think Ghost can do it too. Not to mention that with Timonen gone, Ghosts puck movement is needed more.

I liked MAB, but the guy isnt waiver exempt and he is a walking LTIR waiting to happen. Same with Gus... guy is made of glass.

Who are the 6 defenseman that have been better then Grossmann on the Flyers?
- MJL

Gervais-Gervais
Gervais-Gervais
Gervais-Brandon Duckworth

or:

1- Is the guy capable of making a nice first pass
2- Has the guy fumbled the puck allowing the opposition to get good pressure on him, forcing him to make a panic clear.
3- Why have other players not suffered from the same issues with as much frequency.
- jak521

All the variables need to be included and looked at. Grossmann is not a good puck mover. Never has been, and never will be. But let's look at the games where the support has been there. Where the forwards come back deep, and they play as a 5 man unit. Where the gaps are tight, and they breakout as a team. What happens is that you get a period where the Flyers hold an Islanders team to 2 shots in a period, and socre 3 goals to win the game.

So Ken Daneyko stunk during all of NJ's Cup runs?
- jmatchett383

Nope. Not only is it a different era, but Daneyko was not limited to using physicality to be an effective defenseman. he was better positionally than Grossmann and smarter in staying in his area of responsibility.

He was also used a lot better by his team than Grossmann has been by the Flyers, which is something I have said contributes to Grossmann's issues all along...people just lock onto to knocking the "fancystats" as an easy way to dismiss things.

I know Hagg is going back and Konan is the dark horse right now... I think if Morin puts on more weight, and really impresses in camp, and also plays well in the tryout games, then he might stick for the year. I actaully give Ghost the better shot. He might not have the AHL time, but he is an older more mature player. Like Matt Read, he came right out of College and played a good defensive game. I think Ghost can do it too. Not to mention that with Timonen gone, Ghosts puck movement is needed more.

I liked MAB, but the guy isnt waiver exempt and he is a walking LTIR waiting to happen. Same with Gus... guy is made of glass.
- youarewrong

Read was 24 when he broke in. Ghost is 20. Read was a full grown man. Ghost still needs to add muscle and learn how to play against grown men.

I could see Ghost being called up later in the season, but the AHL would be the perfect transitional step for him.

The AHL won't be a huge step in overall skill, but he will need to matchup against grown men. Thats the aspect he needs to get better at to have a lengthy NHL career.

It's really the perfect transition.

He could end up going the way of JVR and return to college to be the big man on campus.
- PhillySportsGuy

He's routinely going up against 20-22+ year olds (or freakin 24, if you're creepy Matt Read) in the NCAA, though... you could argue that he's already been going up against men, unlike junior players who are up against mostly 15-19 year olds.

The problem is, the reason he blocks so many shots is because he allows so many scoring chances.
- jak521

Any data ot back that up? How many shots that Grossmann has blocked that were coming from the point? Is the defenseman responsible for covering the points? You watch Grossmann play, he eliminates a lot of chances that are the result of breakdowns elsewhere that aren't his check.

I know Hagg is going back and Konan is the dark horse right now... I think if Morin puts on more weight, and really impresses in camp, and also plays well in the tryout games, then he might stick for the year. I actaully give Ghost the better shot. He might not have the AHL time, but he is an older more mature player. Like Matt Read, he came right out of College and played a good defensive game. I think Ghost can do it too. Not to mention that with Timonen gone, Ghosts puck movement is needed more.

I liked MAB, but the guy isnt waiver exempt and he is a walking LTIR waiting to happen. Same with Gus... guy is made of glass.
- youarewrong

Ghost plays a chippy game, but I still think he needs time to match up against men. I watched Alt in the preseason, and kept wondering who he was (couldn't reads the nameplate) because he looked to smooth out there. I think he's got the inside track on a spot. He's a very food looking 2-way player. Again, I'm just worried that Ghost becomes Jack Johnson on defense because he's not used to playing against professional men.

I really don't want to see Pitt, Boston or LA win. I don't have hatred for Chicago.
- PhillySportsGuy

For me, just hate P'burgh. Now that Recchi is gone, I don't hate Boston--they're just really good (but I hate Thornton). Starting to get back to Chicago .(They were my dream matchup for our cup final, my favorite--childhood--west team. but I can't let Kane ruin it all for me forever. Oh I do HATE him though--and not for the goal.) Still I've always loved the Sharkies and love that Thornton, Marleau, and little Joe.

I'm available to discuss any play that has happened this Season and how Grossmann played it. Plenty of video to watch. I recently went back and reviewed every single goal that Grossmann has been on the ice for. Not to often that you come away saying that Grossmann screwed up. That's not to say that he hasn't had bad stretches of games. But overall he's been solid in the situations he's faced.
- MJL

You have game tape of every game.... and had enough time to watch all goals against grossman was on the ice for...

I forgot who said it, but an NHL coach recently said in a response to a question that his team didn't register enough hits, that if a team were to play a perfect game of hockey, they would have registered zero hits, because the other team would have never had the puck.
- Tomahawk

Hits are irrelevant. Teams with lot of hits have won the cup and teams with few hits have won as well. Hits are also left open for interpretation. They are scored differently in different arenas.