I wonder how many boxes of crayolas he went through while writing it.
- johndewar

definitely. you can only do the best you can on an imperfect science using the tools you have. its hard to condemn any approach as utterly invalid.
- stayinthefnnet

But nobody has condemned any stat as invalid. Corsi or any other of the analytics can only tell you what happened, they can't tell you why it happened. And Corsi or any of it's derivatives are unreliable to assess a players play. And there is also the human element of confirmation bias that comes into play. We've seen that perfectly illustrated on this very website. Anyone can make it say what they want it to say. Hockey is too much of a team sport for many of these analytical stats to give a definitive assessment on an individual player. They have to be looked at in the proper context. And all of that can be documented.

OMG Buffalo is on national TV AGAIN tonight......WTF

OMG Buffalo is on national TV AGAIN tonight......WTF
- Just5

It's 'Rivalry' night, and we can all acknowledge that the Penguins/Sabres rivalry ranks right up there at the top, right?

Oh, it's the only East coast game on the schedule? Ahh...

But nobody has condemned any stat as invalid. Corsi or any other of the analytics can only tell you what happened, they can't tell you why it happened. And Corsi or any of it's derivatives are unreliable to assess a players play. And there is also the human element of confirmation bias that comes into play. We've seen that perfectly illustrated on this very website. Anyone can make it say what they want it to say. Hockey is too much of a team sport for many of these analytical stats to give a definitive assessment on an individual player. They have to be looked at in the proper context. And all of that can be documented.
- MJL

Stats, advanced and basic, are wonderful tools to assess players, but they never tell the whole story. No stat in the world can measure a players heart and will succeed. Those intangibles are what made an average sized, average speed guy like Bobby Clarke a superstar.

Unfortunately, there are a vocal some who do exactly this and don't do the cause of advanced stats any favors.
- johndewar

Oh sure there's a handful that do that. Those are the ones you have to try to ignore, and it's not limited to statheads.

Stats, advanced and basic, are wonderful tools to assess players, but they never tell the whole story. No stat in the world can measure a players heart and will succeed. Those intangibles are what made an average sized, average speed guy like Bobby Clarke a superstar.
- BiggE

That's true, some things aren't measurable with stats. A lot of analytics are clearly misunderstood and misused by many fans.

RIP Keith Allen
Keith "the thief" Allen was one of the finest GMs in league history and a true class act as well. Thanks for the memories!!

The Florida Panthers are a long way from Scott Mellanby, The Beezer, and rat tossing:

http://deadspin.com/you-c...orida-panthers-1516119629

The Florida Panthers are a long way from Scott Mellanby, The Beezer, and rat tossing:

http://deadspin.com/you-c...orida-panthers-1516119629
- johndewar

wow, thats just sad. Just move em to Quebec already, they wouldn't even have to change divisions!

wow, thats just sad. Just move em to Quebec already, they wouldn't even have to change divisions!
- BiggE

The cost of the scratch offs MIGHT get you in a parking near the Wells Fargo Center if you park in the Jetro lot, which is now $7, when only the Flyers are playing.

The Florida Panthers are a long way from Scott Mellanby, The Beezer, and rat tossing:

http://deadspin.com/you-c...orida-panthers-1516119629
- johndewar

a missed season & 1/2 year lockout 8 year cba deal, & we still have crap like this

The cost of the scratch offs MIGHT get you in a parking near the Wells Fargo Center if you park in the Jetro lot, which is now $7, when only the Flyers are playing.
- johndewar

At some point the league is just going to have to accept the fact that they will never have the fanbases they need in places like south Florida, Arizona and Nashville. While each of those teams has a core of rabid, loyal fans, the general population there just doesn't follow hockey to enough of an extent for long term success.

The league would be better served with franchises in places like Seattle, Portland, Quebec and western Ontario anyway.

a missed season & 1/2 year lockout 8 year cba deal, & we still have crap like this
- puckhead17

My cousin lived in the Miami area for 20 years. According to him most local hockey fans are seniors who just don't go out any later than 4pm to get to the early bird specials. Pro teams there in general will do ok when winning or if they feature a superstar like Lebron James, other than that or as soon as they lose 2 in a row, the fans are gone.

that Eastern conference got good quick.
Flyers better keep winning or will miss the playoffs for the 2nd straight year

My cousin lived in the Miami area for 20 years. According to him most local hockey fans are seniors who just don't go out any later than 4pm to get to the early bird specials. Pro teams there in general will do ok when winning or if they feature a superstar like Lebron James, other than that or as soon as they lose 2 in a row, the fans are gone.
- BiggE

It's ridiculous.

With a few cities ready to support a team, no matter how good or bad they are in waiting this is a joke.

We missed an entire season & another 1/2 a year of the same rhetoric just to see things never really changed regarding the health of all the franchises.
But then again, it never really was about all that, it was about guys like Snider & Jacobs ensuring their pile of money continues to grow while other teams exchange tickets for dumpster material.

wow, thats just sad. Just move em to Quebec already, they wouldn't even have to change divisions!
- BiggE

I watched the Leafs game in Sunrise last night, and I was shocked to see how empty the arena was. Behind both benches, it was completely empty for at least 20 rows... and that's for the Leafs who normally draw well for Canadian snow birds... it looks bad.. I'd say move em.

But nobody has condemned any stat as invalid. Corsi or any other of the analytics can only tell you what happened, they can't tell you why it happened. And Corsi or any of it's derivatives are unreliable to assess a players play. And there is also the human element of confirmation bias that comes into play. We've seen that perfectly illustrated on this very website. Anyone can make it say what they want it to say. Hockey is too much of a team sport for many of these analytical stats to give a definitive assessment on an individual player. They have to be looked at in the proper context. And all of that can be documented.
- MJL

Here is my look at advanced stats... I dont look them up. If I somehow see them, I say... huh, that's interesting. IMO if you look at corsi numbers to tell a story, its like reading the Cliffs Notes. It gives you the framework of the story. You might even be able to give a great review of it... but you dont have the whole story.

Me Personally I would rather read the story, and make my own assumptions, even if they may be wrong.

Stats, advanced and basic, are wonderful tools to assess players, but they never tell the whole story. No stat in the world can measure a players heart and will succeed. Those intangibles are what made an average sized, average speed guy like Bobby Clarke a superstar.
- BiggE

I don't believe any stat has ever claimed to do that.

I think possession metrics would have been very very kind to #16.

Here is my look at advanced stats... I dont look them up. If I somehow see them, I say... huh, that's interesting. IMO if you look at corsi numbers to tell a story, its like reading the Cliffs Notes. It gives you the framework of the story. You might even be able to give a great review of it... but you dont have the whole story.

Me Personally I would rather read the story, and make my own assumptions, even if they may be wrong.
- youarewrong

Part of the problem is, unless you have:

- birds-eye view of the full ice surface (TV crops a lot of the action out),
- the ability to follow all 12 players on the ice simultaneously,
- watched every game, for every team, across all seasons,
- have a encyclopedic, photographic memory of every little play (not just memorable goals, hits, gaffes)



... you're going to need stats. Advanced stats are no different than regular stats... they just provide more specific answers to more specific questions.

They do not replace watching the games. But they do tell you a whole heck of a lot more about the games/plays/seasons you missed/forgot than the traditional stat line.

Here is my look at advanced stats... I dont look them up. If I somehow see them, I say... huh, that's interesting. IMO if you look at corsi numbers to tell a story, its like reading the Cliffs Notes. It gives you the framework of the story. You might even be able to give a great review of it... but you dont have the whole story.

Me Personally I would rather read the story, and make my own assumptions, even if they may be wrong.
- youarewrong

Extremely well said!

-



... you're going to need stats. Advanced stats are no different than regular stats... they just provide more specific answers to more specific questions.


- Tomahawk

Advanced stats can only tell you what happened. They cannot tell you why they happened. And are not a reliable source for determining if a player is playing poorly.

... you're going to need stats. Advanced stats are no different than regular stats... they just provide more specific answers to more specific questions.

They do not replace watching the games. But they do tell you a whole heck of a lot more about the games/plays/seasons you missed/forgot than the traditional stat line.
- Tomahawk

I disagree wholeheartedly. All they do is quantify what you see during the game in different ways. Can they be helpful if you only have but so much time to dissect video? Yes. But a (good) coach or whoever needs to see the video finds the time to properly dissect it.

They have limited uses and there popularity has become almost annoying. I've found most people don't even understand them all that well, as they try to use them to make certain arguments hit home that make absolutely no sense.

How does everyone feel about pending UFA Andrew MacDonald?

At some point the league is just going to have to accept the fact that they will never have the fanbases they need in places like south Florida, Arizona and Nashville. While each of those teams has a core of rabid, loyal fans, the general population there just doesn't follow hockey to enough of an extent for long term success.

The league would be better served with franchises in places like Seattle, Portland, Quebec and western Ontario anyway.
- BiggE

Nashville is fine. They have an average attandance of 99.2. Without the help of nearby citys to pump in opposing fans unlike devils with 97% that get filled by Flyer, caps, pens, rags, isles, and bruin fans.

When NHL expands they should put 2 cities in... Markham/Hamilton and Seattle both in the West to balance out conferences. In 5 years when Phoenix's contract is up move them to Kansis City and Move Florida to Quebec.

NorthEast:
Quebec
Montreal
Ottawa
Toronto
Boston
Buffalo
Columbus
Detroit

East:
Rangers
Islanders
Devils
Flyers
Penguins
Washington
Carolina
Tampa

Central:
Markham/Hamilton
Chicago
St.Louis
Kansis City
Nashville
Minnesota
Winnipeg
Stars

West:
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Seattle
Kings
Sharks
Ducks
Colorado