On a related note, I had a long talk with a veteran NHL pro scout on Thursday about the whole advanced statistics trend. To put it politely, he said he still views it as essentially a collection of worthless information and said that hockey is the sport that is least conducive to that sort of data.

I won't go nearly that far. Also, there are a growing number of people within the game that see validity in it (although I have yet to meet anyone who thinks it does anything more than supplements -- not replaces -- traditional methods of scouting and analyzing players).

I think it gives you tools for seeing some important facets of the game. But I do think that assigning individual "credit" or blame for something of the above nature -- short of the player being a franchise defenseman or someone who clearly doesn't belong on an NHL -- gives every bit as distorted of a picture as completely ignoring it.

When Gustafsson has done his job, he's stayed in the lineup for Berube. When he hasn't, he's ended up a healthy scratch.
- bmeltzer

Well said Bill. When you look at the new analytics, they certainly can shed some very good insight into what's going on out there. But they can't completely tell you why. The interpretation requires context. Of looking at the game situations, what kind of player a player is, and how he's used, and who he plays with. As you said in terms of blame or credit, there is just too much false data assigned to any individual player for it to be conclusive and capable of pointing out any one player as played well or poorly. There's some definite benefits to it, if used correctly. But as we see from time to time, often misunderstood and mis-used in my opinion.

I respect your opinion Bill, and I think you're generally well thought out and even-handed with your analysis, so it's sad to see you of all people repeating the single most common misconception about analytics: that it somehow strives to replace the need to watch the games.
- Tomahawk

Traditional methods of scouting and evaluating players involves more then just watching the games. And the real problem is that for a lot of people it has replaced watching the game. When Corsi or Corsirel is used as the main argument as to why some players aren't playing well, that is what causes any misconception.

I agree, I don't want another one way offensive defenseman. And another player that has be used only in certain situations. I want an all around 2 way player that can play in all situations, and be trusted to do it well.
- MJL

That's how I feel, too. Although I wouldn't stop at one... I'd love to see them work toward the goal of having a top-6 of all two-way dmen, like Chicago.

Coburn showed a lot of promise offensively earlier in his career, I don't know where that went, but it's not there now. Meszaros although he may be the most talented defenseman the Flyers have, he's just not back to where he was before. Whether it's mental, preventive or what. But he just doesn't have that physical edge that he used to have. No doubt the mix needs to change.
- MJL

Mez has shown some promise lately.
He isn't where he was several years ago, but making improvements from earlier.

I wonder where he will end up next year.
I do like the guy.

That's how I feel, too. Although I wouldn't stop at one... I'd love to see them work toward the goal of having a top-6 of all two-way dmen, like Chicago.
- Tomahawk

do you see Luke Schenn as a two way defenseman?

That's how I feel, too. Although I wouldn't stop at one... I'd love to see them work toward the goal of having a top-6 of all two-way dmen, like Chicago.
- Tomahawk

I agree, although I wouldn't go as far as saying that Chicago has 6 of them. I have no problem with a 3rd pair player being more of a specialist.

Mez has shown some promise lately.
He isn't where he was several years ago, but making improvements from earlier.

I wonder where he will end up next year.
I do like the guy.
- Marc D

He's exerted himself offensively. But in my opinion his physical game and his aggressiveness is no where near where it needs to be.

Raffl could be better than Read
who needs draft scouts lol

do you see Luke Schenn as a two way defenseman?
- Marc D

His puck skills are underrated, IMO. If he can get his head on straight, and even out his peaks and valleys, I don't see why he couldn't be a contributor both ways.

You're doing it wrong.

You can't just pull one number out, not put it into any kind of context, and expect it to mean anything.

1) Gus hasn't had as many minutes as the other D, so you're dealing with a smaller sample size,

2) Gus also doesn't face high levels of competition, so of course those kinds of players are going to score less goals on Mason.


edit:
3) Mason's SV% when Gus has been on the ice has been .951... way higher than it is for any other member of the D
- Tomahawk

when he's not in the lineup those players score more on mason

Well said Bill. When you look at the new analytics, they certainly can shed some very good insight into what's going on out there. But they can't completely tell you why. The interpretation requires context. Of looking at the game situations, what kind of player a player is, and how he's used, and who he plays with. As you said in terms of blame or credit, there is just too much false data assigned to any individual player for it to be conclusive and capable of pointing out any one player as played well or poorly. There's some definite benefits to it, if used correctly. But as we see from time to time, often misunderstood and mis-used in my opinion.
- MJL

so if ovechkin scores 50 goals in a season that's useless in determining if he's a good player?

Lets go!

I am with Snider too, hate the Olympic break. Especially if the US is eliminated early.

On the bright side I think we will have a good stretch run. The Caps underachieve historically in the playoffs and it sucks for them but we have been able to handle the Pens if we need to. I do feel bad for LeTang tho, on the bright side at least he is still alive.

I want to keep the team together for the most part, unless we can improve that is, just no trade for trades sake.

You're doing it wrong.

You can't just pull one number out, not put it into any kind of context, and expect it to mean anything.

1) Gus hasn't had as many minutes as the other D, so you're dealing with a smaller sample size,

2) Gus also doesn't face high levels of competition, so of course those kinds of players are going to score less goals on Mason.


edit:
3) Mason's SV% when Gus has been on the ice has been .951... way higher than it is for any other member of the D
- Tomahawk

Regarding #2, according to corsi, Gus is 4th in terms of offensive quality of competition faced behind Coburn, Grossman, and kimmo.

Raffl could be better than Read
who needs draft scouts lol
- Winning

a team with raffls and reads wouldn't win the cup

Regarding #2, according to corsi, Gus is 4th in terms of offensive quality of competition faced behind Coburn, Grossman, and kimmo.
- fecondo

pretty good i must say

emery in goal

when he's not in the lineup those players score more on mason
- 2Real

That could be the case, but it doesn't mean Gus is solely responsible for that. Correlation does not equal causation, especially in a tiny sample size, and when there could be a thousand other variables that go into GA/60 than the play of one guy.

mcgrattan? 4th line?

That could be the case, but it doesn't mean Gus is solely responsible for that. Correlation does not equal causation, especially in a tiny sample size, and when there could be a thousand other variables that go into GA/60 than the play of one guy.
- Tomahawk

it's not like gusty just does nothing on the ice he must contribute something to help with those stats

mcgrattan? 4th line?
- 2Real

Yeah. How often does he start those guys since the Vancouver incident?

Damnit dp.

kick his ass vinny

Andrej in Erik out.

So Gus is out.

gusty out? arg must be showcasing mezzy then