@HeleneStJames
Daniel Cleary is going to Philadelphia Flyers for 3 years, AAV of $2.75 Million. NTC. Deal won't be official till end of month.
- Tomahawk

It was a rumor, nothing more. What did Cleary sign in Detroit? A one year deal for 1.75. So he turned down a 3 year deal at an AAV of 2.75M from the Flyers to sign a one year deal with the Wings for less money? It's pretty clear what happened there. Cleary and his agent used the Flyers and the press for leverage. I can also produce media links where Holmgren said a deal was never in place, other then the PTO. And it's clear that Cleary wanted to be in Detroit all along, and that's what stopped the Flyers from signing him, not the Cap.

Negotiating contracts isn't nearly as formal as you think.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's not formal in discussions. It is formal when you present actual contracts to players in the NHL as offers.

They seem to use free agency a bit more than other teams, no? They just signed the top free agent defenseman, center and goalie last offseason.

Therefore, if they are using free agency (which you deemed as a means of overpayment for all teams) a lot, they are not using their finite amount of cap space in the most efficient manner.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't know for a fact that the Flyers use Free Agency more then any other team. They are certainly right up there in spending every year. I have no issues with how the Flyers use their cap space.

After searching around, I see zero mention of a "one or the other" situation with the Parise and Suter contract offers, not even rumors. I'm not attempting to win a debate here or anything (though you can still send any trophies or cash awards), but it seems apparent to me the Flyers were able and willing to sign both.

It's not formal in discussions. It is formal when you present actual contracts to players in the NHL as offers.
- MJL

You can put clauses in the contract! The offer can expire upon the signing of Ryan Suter to the Philadelphia Flyers. And vice versa for Parise.

It was a rumor, nothing more. What did Cleary sign in Detroit? A one year deal for 1.75. So he turned down a 3 year deal at an AAV of 2.75M from the Flyers to sign a one year deal with the Wings for less money? It's pretty clear what happened there. Cleary and his agent used the Flyers and the press for leverage. I can also produce media links where Holmgren said a deal was never in place, other then the PTO.
- MJL

I call BS.

You can put clauses in the contract! The offer can expire upon the signing of Ryan Suter to the Philadelphia Flyers. And vice versa for Parise.
- PhillySportsGuy

The standard SPC is in the CBA. And you just can't put anything you want to put it there. Now the Flyers could certainly withdraw an offer, and I don't think they need a clause of any kind to do so.

You can put clauses in the contract! The offer can expire upon the signing of Ryan Suter to the Philadelphia Flyers. And vice versa for Parise.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't think you can. Up until the point they make their decisions, I think you have to have the cap space to cover every contract offered. Otherwise you could just throw out 10 contract offers all at once with that clause.

I call BS.
- Tomahawk

Yes, the reports by Helene St James and other media types was BS. It's pretty clear what went on. Detroit was his chosen destination all along.

I don't think you can. Up until the point they make their decisions, I think you have to have the cap space to cover every contract offered. Otherwise you could just throw out 10 contract offers all at once with that clause.
- MBFlyerfan

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how they would have managed that situation. They would have been selling off players like no other.

Yes, the reports by Helene St James and other media types was BS. It's pretty clear what went on. Detroit was his chosen destination all along.
- MJL

mmmhmmm.

Bill, just read your post and tend to agree with you more than Tim Panaccio. One question though: Since the Preds matched, paid a large portion of the bonuses and salary of the contract, is there a possibility that the Flyers could could put together a package that includes a huge chunk of cash to basically reimburse the Preds? I don't know what the league rules are on this, and since the Preds have stockpiled defensemen, it's a theory I'd like to explore. Your thoughts?

Yes, the reports by Helene St James and other media types was BS. It's pretty clear what went on. Detroit was his chosen destination all along.
- MJL

Based on what you're saying, the cap has never held any team back from doing what they want.

Bill, just read your post and tend to agree with you more than Tim Panaccio. One question though: Since the Preds matched, paid a large portion of the bonuses and salary of the contract, is there a possibility that the Flyers could could put together a package that includes a huge chunk of cash to basically reimburse the Preds? I don't know what the league rules are on this, and since the Preds have stockpiled defensemen, it's a theory I'd like to explore. Your thoughts?
- Hokeeguy9

No cash trades, unless they're stuffing Rosehill's gear with stacks of Benjamins.

Based on what you're saying, the cap has never held any team back from doing what they want.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's exactly what he's saying. It's all "choices" and media BS.

mmmhmmm.
- Tomahawk

Well if it's BS why would Cleary agree in principle with the Flyers to a 3 year deal for an AAV of 2.75M, then 2 days later after agreeing to the PTO, then not show up to Flyers camp and agree to a 1 year deal for 1.75 with the Wings. What's your explanation for that?

Well if it's BS why would Cleary agree in principle with the Flyers to a 3 year deal for an AAV of 2.75M, then 2 days later after agreeing to the PTO, then not show up to Flyers camp and agree to a 1 year deal for 1.75 with the Wings. What's your explanation for that?
- MJL

Change of heart. Its not like the Wings came back and matched the Flyers offer.

Based on what you're saying, the cap has never held any team back from doing what they want.
- PhillySportsGuy

No I did not say that. I specifically spoke about the Flyers. Look at the things that the Flyers have done every off season. Players they signed and made offers to. How is the Cap stopping them from doing what they want to do?

Change of heart. Its not like the Wings came back and matched the Flyers offer.
- PhillySportsGuy

More like negotiating with the Flyers got the Red Wings to up their offer to a deal that Cleary was willing to accept. He never had a change of heart. He wanted to be with the Red Wings all along. And waited all Summer to sign with them.

No I did not say that. I specifically spoke about the Flyers. Look at the things that the Flyers have done every off season. Players they signed and made offers to. How is the Cap stopping them from doing what they want to do?
- MJL

Give an example of when the cap has held a team back.

21st in the league in scoring with almost 10 less games played than almost everyone else above him. Isn't he a defense first player?
- JAKEw1234

He could be viewed that way

That's exactly what he's saying. It's all "choices" and media BS.
- Tomahawk

Yes, how a team decides to allocate it's cap spending is choices. Who they choose to try and re-sign, who they decide to wait on. And who they decide to go after in Free Agency.

More like negotiating with the Flyers got the Red Wings to up their offer to a deal that Cleary was willing to accept. He never had a change of heart. He wanted to be with the Red Wings all along. And waited all Summer to sign with them.
- MJL

It seemed more like Cleary wanted to be with the Wings and decided to come to the Flyers then had a change of heart. I can't imagine the Wings upping their offer that match. It was only $1.75M

Give an example of when the cap has held a team back.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm not talking about other teams. I'm talking about the Flyers.

It seemed more like Cleary wanted to be with the Wings and decided to come to the Flyers then had a change of heart. I can't imagine the Wings upping their offer that match. It was only $1.75M
- PhillySportsGuy

According to Helene St James the Flyers offered him 2.75 a year for 3 years. He used the Flyers as leverage.